Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash • Hacker News Board

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#371

Post by __loam » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 3:51 AM UTC

hliyan wrote: post #368

The phenomenon at work here is: if product being produced by a profit-seeking enterprise can be rented instead of being sold, said enterprise will eventually find a way to do it, then over time, rather than a single bill, it will attempt to rent out individual aspects of the now product-turned-service, followed by cost cutting that degrades the default service level while introducing additional service levels for whi…

This is the primary reason why creatives despise Adobe despite some people here arguing that it's for the AI art generation. They hate that too but the biggest pain point by far is the toxic business relation you have to maintain to continue to use industry standard tooling.

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#372

Post by speff » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 4:02 AM UTC

55555 wrote: post #363

Adobe runs what must be one of the largest deceptive rebills. The vast majority of users signing up for a monthly plan do not realize that it is actually an "annual plan, billed monthly" and thus that if they cancel after one month (for example) they'll be billed for the remaining 11 immediately. I honestly don't know how they haven't faced FTC action for this, as it's been their primary model for 5-10 years now.

I still don't see why this is a point against Adobe. When you select a plan, they very clearly give you 3 options. Monthly, Annual billed monthly, and Annual prepaid. The Annual billed monthly is just flat-out better for end users over prepaid. Why do people want to get rid of it? Because some people FAFO when trying to get an annual price while still being able to cancel any time?

I do not like Adobe in the slightest, but it's not because of their billing practices.

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#373

Post by sanswork » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 4:03 AM UTC

55555 wrote: post #363

Adobe runs what must be one of the largest deceptive rebills. The vast majority of users signing up for a monthly plan do not realize that it is actually an "annual plan, billed monthly" and thus that if they cancel after one month (for example) they'll be billed for the remaining 11 immediately. I honestly don't know how they haven't faced FTC action for this, as it's been their primary model for 5-10 years now.

I just went back through the sign up process to check and it seems pretty obvious these days? I got three options at checkout annual billed monthly, monthly, annual.

I hate annual billed monthly but the wording isn't hidden.

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#374

Post by 55555 » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 4:03 AM UTC

sepositus wrote: post #367

55555 wrote: post #363

Adobe runs what must be one of the largest deceptive rebills. The vast majority of users signing up for a monthly plan do not realize that it is actually an "annual plan, billed monthly" and thus that if they cancel after one month (for example) they'll be billed for the remaining 11 immediately. I honestly don't know how they haven't faced FTC action for this, as it's been their primary model for 5-10 years now.

Wasn't there some action around this like a year ago? Can't find it now, but I thought it was investigated at some point.

It seems you're right. I can't find how big the fine was. ChatGPT says it is still ongoing. Not sure if that's right. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2024/06/...

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#375

Post by zmmmmm » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 4:03 AM UTC

f33d5173 wrote: post #85

adzm wrote: post #28

Adobe is the one major company trying to be ethical with its AI training data and no one seems to even care. The AI features in Photoshop are the best around in my experience and come in handy constantly for all sorts of touchup work. Anyway I don't really think they deserve a lot of the hate they get, but I do hope this encourages development of viable alternatives to their products. Photoshop is still pretty much p…

Adobe isn't trying to be ethical , they are trying to be more legally compliant, because they see that as a market opportunity. Otoh, artists complain about legal compliance of AIs not because that is what they care about, but because they see that as their only possible redress against a phenomenon they find distasteful. A legal reality where you can only train AI on content you've licensed would be the worst for ev…

The ship has sailed, but I can understand artists feeling that no matter how any AI is trained prospectively, it was only made possible because the methods to do so were learned through unethical means - we now know the exact model architectures, efficient training methods and types of training data needed so that companies like Adobe can recreate it with a fraction of the cost.

We obviously can never unscramble that egg, which is sad because it probably means there will never be a way to make such people feel OK about AI.

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#376

Post by 55555 » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 4:05 AM UTC

speff wrote: post #372

55555 wrote: post #363

Adobe runs what must be one of the largest deceptive rebills. The vast majority of users signing up for a monthly plan do not realize that it is actually an "annual plan, billed monthly" and thus that if they cancel after one month (for example) they'll be billed for the remaining 11 immediately. I honestly don't know how they haven't faced FTC action for this, as it's been their primary model for 5-10 years now.

I still don't see why this is a point against Adobe. When you select a plan, they very clearly give you 3 options. Monthly, Annual billed monthly, and Annual prepaid. The Annual billed monthly is just flat-out better for end users over prepaid. Why do people want to get rid of it? Because some people FAFO when trying to get an annual price while still being able to cancel any time? I do not like Adobe in the slightes…

It used to not be clear at all. Maybe it is now.

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2024/06/...

Interestingly, just fyi, they do a reasonable-person test when trying these cases. That means they literally pull 100 people off the street and ask each one to go through the funnel and then give them a quiz with questions like "How much am I going to be billed?"

So if people are confused, it's basically on you, regardless of whether you think you were being clear about the terms.

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#377

Post by speff » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 4:10 AM UTC

55555 wrote: post #376

speff wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don't see why this is a point against Adobe. When you select a plan, they very clearly give you 3 options. Monthly, Annual billed monthly, and Annual prepaid. The Annual billed monthly is just flat-out better for end users over prepaid. Why do people want to get rid of it? Because some people FAFO when trying to get an annual price while still being able to cancel any time? I do not like Adobe in the slightes…

It used to not be clear at all. Maybe it is now. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2024/06/... Interestingly, just fyi, they do a reasonable-person test when trying these cases. That means they literally pull 100 people off the street and ask each one to go through the funnel and then give them a quiz with questions like "How much am I going to be billed?" So if people are confused, it's basically o…

That's fair - I don't know what their sales page looked like prior to the FCC investigation. However in its current state, I see no issues with the way the information's presented. If a majority of the 100 people can't figure it out, I'm not sure what else they can do other than remove the option which is better for the consumer. I wouldn't be surprised it that's where it'll end up

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#378

Post by derefr » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 4:12 AM UTC

speff wrote: post #372

55555 wrote: post #363

Adobe runs what must be one of the largest deceptive rebills. The vast majority of users signing up for a monthly plan do not realize that it is actually an "annual plan, billed monthly" and thus that if they cancel after one month (for example) they'll be billed for the remaining 11 immediately. I honestly don't know how they haven't faced FTC action for this, as it's been their primary model for 5-10 years now.

I still don't see why this is a point against Adobe. When you select a plan, they very clearly give you 3 options. Monthly, Annual billed monthly, and Annual prepaid. The Annual billed monthly is just flat-out better for end users over prepaid. Why do people want to get rid of it? Because some people FAFO when trying to get an annual price while still being able to cancel any time? I do not like Adobe in the slightes…

Signing a contract where, even if you stop using the company's service or having anything to do with the company, you still have to keep paying them nevertheless... sounds like one of those types of deals† that we invented the concept of "inalienable rights" to prevent companies from offering.

† I.e. the type of deal where the individual is being asked to trade away something they cannot reasonably evaluate the net present value of (their own future optionality in a future they can't predict) — which will inevitably be presented by the company offering the deal, in a way that minimizes/obscures this loss of optionality. In other words, it's a deal that, in being able to make it, has the same inherent flaws as indentured servitude does — just with money instead of labor.

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#379

Post by jimbob45 » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 4:13 AM UTC

simonw wrote: post #36

Yeah, they posted this: > Hey, we're Adobe! We're here to connect with the artists, designers, and storytellers who bring ideas to life. What's fueling your creativity right now? > Drop a reply, tag a creator, or share your latest work—we'd love to see what inspires you! That's such a bland, corporate message. It feels totally inauthentic. Do Adobe (a corporation) really "love to see what inspires you" or do they jus…

The left has spent the last decade proudly bullying everyone for wrongthink, including going after employment and family members. It should come as no surprise then that corporations wouldn’t participate above the bare minimum on a predominantly leftist forum.

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#380

Post by speff » Sat, Apr 12, 2025, 4:15 AM UTC

derefr wrote: post #378

speff wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don't see why this is a point against Adobe. When you select a plan, they very clearly give you 3 options. Monthly, Annual billed monthly, and Annual prepaid. The Annual billed monthly is just flat-out better for end users over prepaid. Why do people want to get rid of it? Because some people FAFO when trying to get an annual price while still being able to cancel any time? I do not like Adobe in the slightes…

Signing a contract where, even if you stop using the company's service or having anything to do with the company, you still have to keep paying them nevertheless... sounds like one of those types of deals† that we invented the concept of "inalienable rights" to prevent companies from offering. † I.e. the type of deal where the individual is being asked to trade away something they cannot reasonably evaluate the net p…

You're not buying a monthly plan for their Annual billed Monthly option. You're literally buying a year's worth, but paying it off in 12 installments over time. If someone were to buy the monthly plan, cancel it, and still get billed for it, yes you would have a point.