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Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

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Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#371

Post by _Tomas »

kaba0 wrote: post #347
_Tomas wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is all true but it can be a little bit of survivor ship bias at play. Look at all the technology conferences over the last 40 years and for the most part you will see a grave yard of tens of thousand of ideas that looks promising but ended up going nowhere Survivor bias is real, but the interesting failures (in comparison to VR) are things like 3D TV. 3D TV has a very weak effect, the 3D effect is basically dis…

I don’t know, I think you are a bit overhyping the effects, but anyway — this is very creepy. Even if the effect stops at being able to manipulate people on a short-term (e.g. in-“game” transactions, etc) basis more effectively than the already criminal (morally) existing manipulations. Also, I tried looking into the Strategic modification.. paper? but didn’t find it.

I think I'm being pretty mild on the effects :) But maybe that's the enthusiasm of working in the field.

And yes, it's creepy for sure. There is a theory that every generation witnesses a key technological development and is 'lost' to that development, and the generation that grows up with that technology is immune to it. I imagine VR is going to be a technology like that, there will be people 'lost to it' in the same way that people were lost to TV or to smartphones today ( ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Olt-ZtV_CE ). Ethically VR is going to be a minefield.

Here's the paper that coined the phrase:

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2019.0035...

And here's I think one of the better papers giving that explanation in terms of VR.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30553934/

Although I come more from a mechanistic/biological background, but there the research has not come so far, AFAIK.

Although Catherine Dulac and Christian Broberger are on the cutting edge in that area.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtiZb-kuexU

That lecture is a fantastic place to start, and the statement at 6:55 is key to seeing why VR is going to be a game changer.

*edit*

Maybe also this lecture too, the shear scale of the visual system in the brain is another key aspect to how VR can be so powerful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2jfPZLhTIY

Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#372

Post by pzo »

charcircuit wrote: post #341
tjmc wrote: post #297

A couple of ideas I'd love to see... - Night vision app using the truedepth and lidar sensors - Drone/robot/telepresence HUD. It would be incredible with stereoscopic cameras

Has the headset been confirmed to work in the dark? It would requires apple to have flood lights on the headset to light up the environment no that the cameras can see.

It has in front both lidar and truedepth camera - truedepth camera has IR flood flights and IR cameras but provide resolution of depthmap 640x480 at 30fps. Unfortunately raw IR camera video stream is not available for 3rd parties so you could only render this VGA depthmap heatmap style.

Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#373

Post by concinds »

moonchrome wrote: post #162
leejoramo wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 1981, I received a computer as a birthday gift at the young age of 13. Likely the first micro-computer in my small California town. When I took it to my Junior High science fair people were like stunned by a kid with a computer. When you turned on the computer, all you got was a flashing cursor wait for you to program in BASIC. The next year, a successful local business person asked me, if I thought in the future…

3.5k device that's locked down into some iOS like Apple walled garden doesn't sound like backers playground to me.

It's true that it's a walled garden. But with everything the device has access to, cameras pointed at your pupils, cameras pointed at your surroundings, precise tracking of where you look (which the OS prevents apps from accessing), I'm not sure I want apps to have full permission to the hardware. The more "intimate" devices become, the less you can trust random apps. They still let you run whatever you want on your own device as a dev, which seems like a good compromise. But I'd never trust other people's apps with access to all that.

Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#374

Post by andybak »

rvz wrote: post #359
andybak wrote: post #334

I don't think there's a single comment here that's about the developer tools. It's all just people debating the merits of the Vision Pro and XR in general. Again...

This just tells us that this version of Apple's Vision product line up is for the rich tech bros here and is not expected to be used by the general consumers who won't throw $3,500 on a XR headset just like the Hololens. Clearly in the comments it just shows how out of touch they are in reality. There will be a version of the vision product line-up that will be reduced to the size and naturalism of a pair of glasses…

Did you just respond to my comment complaining that people weren't discussing the SDK by... not discussing the SDK?

I've read a hundred general comments about Apple's strategy and market fit. Can we just talk about the actual topic of this post for once?

Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#375

Post by kaba0 »

_Tomas wrote: post #371
kaba0 wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know, I think you are a bit overhyping the effects, but anyway — this is very creepy. Even if the effect stops at being able to manipulate people on a short-term (e.g. in-“game” transactions, etc) basis more effectively than the already criminal (morally) existing manipulations. Also, I tried looking into the Strategic modification.. paper? but didn’t find it.

I think I'm being pretty mild on the effects :) But maybe that's the enthusiasm of working in the field. And yes, it's creepy for sure. There is a theory that every generation witnesses a key technological development and is 'lost' to that development, and the generation that grows up with that technology is immune to it. I imagine VR is going to be a technology like that, there will be people 'lost to it' in the sam…

Thanks for the reply, will be checking out your links!

Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#376

Post by spaceman_2020 »

ulfw wrote: post #320
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can totally imagine walking into a WeWork in 2025 and seeing everyone in the hot desk area wearing one of these instead of their tiny laptops.

That makes weworking and hotdesking in an office even more useless than it already is. Sitting there with your headset on, disconnected from most of the world.

My reason for going to WeWork are to simply chat up with other people during breaks I’m not working. It’s pretty much my only regular social outlet.

Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#377

Post by detourdog »

Scalene2 wrote: post #338
detourdog wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m most intrigued by the handtracking I’m hoping that ends up beig distinct…. eventually.

Hand tracking is available on at least five other headsets available now.

I Haven’t seen hand tracking like the vision pro.

Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#378

Post by pzo »

mentos wrote: post #46
Jeff_Brown wrote: post #2

To paraphrase The Economist, "This device is amazing, and now Apple needs developers to figure out what it's for." https://www.economist.com/business/2023/06/06/apples-vision-...

Unreal Engine developer here, super thrilled to see Apple spitefully choosing to only support Unity with no mention of UE. I imagine due to the bad blood between Epic and Apple over AppStore lawsuits.

I'm still wondering if they choose Unity only as initial partner and will allow other to integrate their 3rd parties engines by themself. Otherwise they would alienated not only Unreal Engine game makers but also:

- godot - bevy - flutter - qt

since all those above render their own ui widgets - you need to integrate somehow this eye tracking to be able to select it.

Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#379

Post by wucaworld »

moonchrome wrote: post #162
leejoramo wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 1981, I received a computer as a birthday gift at the young age of 13. Likely the first micro-computer in my small California town. When I took it to my Junior High science fair people were like stunned by a kid with a computer. When you turned on the computer, all you got was a flashing cursor wait for you to program in BASIC. The next year, a successful local business person asked me, if I thought in the future…

3.5k device that's locked down into some iOS like Apple walled garden doesn't sound like backers playground to me.

Disagree. HoloLens and oculus went with internal SDKs too complicated for most devs, and had official docs recommending Unity and unreal for development. This seemed stupid as those environments were not purpose built for this class of device (mixed reality). I think Apple has shown some serious wisdom here and am excited to explore their frameworks.

Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#380

Post by spaceman_2020 »

pzo wrote: post #318
bushbaba wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Original iPhone was 599, an expensive phone at the time. Today 599 isn’t considered that expensive for a smartphone. The price doesn’t have to come down as 3.5k is the modern day equivalent to the price of a laptop 10-20 years ago.

Price still has to go down to be mass adopted. Apple sell just ~25 million mac per year and probably most of them are just cheaper macbook air with price below $1.5. Even though their current macbooks are great and people see the value of having a laptop, it's a mature market but Apple still has only like 10% market share. People wallet and their salary is not out of rubber - there is limit how much they can stretch…

The tech will be back-engineered once the first VisionPro is out. It took Android smartphones a few years too before they were competent with Apple. Today, the best Androids are almost as good, if not better.

There will be multiple VisionPro competitors within half a decade and they’ll all compete on price and focus on mass adoption - just as it happens with phones and laptops.

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