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Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

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Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#371

Post by andrewinardeer »

safety1st wrote: post #212
spazx wrote: post #109

Smelled this one coming miles away. Next, they'll hand over fan-built communities to the entities that own the IPs they're dedicated to. Eg. r/starwars to Disney, r/startrek to Viacom/Paramount, etc. Then, old.reddit.com will stop working spontaneously, just like how they toyed with killing mobile browser access to force users to download the app, which they probably will eventually. That's going to be the final push…

They are done, 100%, this is the turning point and it's all downhill from here. They depend fundamentally on volunteer labor and every decision they've made since announcing the API change has alienated that labor. The morale of every mod I know is in the tank. The solution for this was incredibly simple. Reddit you want to charge for the API? Go right ahead, we all want you to make money. But when the volunteer labo…

I disagree with your doomsday scenario.

There are Reddit users waiting in the wings, wringing their hands ready to jump at the 'oppurtunity' to moderate established subreddits and will happily devote their time to custodial duties.

No doubt some have already contacted Reddit management saying that if they de-mod x subreddit they will jump in and guarantee the subreddit's operation.

I don't understand the argument about the lack of free labour drying up. It won't. There are people who thrive on having power over others even though in this case, subreddit moderation, it is perceived power. And Reddit management knows this. For years they have seen how moderators relish and also abuse power. That's why there are moderator guidelines.

In fact, I think it can be argued that Reddit is leveraging this moment to flush out long standing and troublesome moderators which I think is clearly being what the end game is. And Huffman's goal.

It may be silly of me to say, however, I don't think people are giving Huffman enough credit. He knew that there would be significant blowback. He has been involved with Reddit longer and probably far more in depth than any other employee or user. I wouldn't put it past him that he knows Reddit moderation is due for a shake up and is probably keen on getting rid of a subset. And by doing so he can not only pick and choose which users he wants in on what subreddits but more importantly can dictate the culture he wants.

This whole episode if far from over. He has clearly said that the new API changes are going nowhere and I'm willing to bet that he gets what he wants (which includes a mod clean out) with the outcome being a few people quitting the site and people talking about him from now until eternity.

EDIT: Spelling

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#372

Post by brabel »

Panzer04 wrote: post #359
brabel wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but in this case there was no golden eggs, Reddit had users but no way of making any money out of it other than by selling the data (which is exactly what they seem to be doing now).

Reddit is a forum. It should not be hard to make money selling ads on the most popular forum on the internet. Hosting costs should be jack shit, developing costs should be pretty low, etc. Reddit must be funking up in a pretty fundamental way to not be making money.

Easy to say from the outside, isn't it? You think they just never thought of that...

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#373

Post by rdevsrex »

safety1st wrote: post #212
spazx wrote: post #109

Smelled this one coming miles away. Next, they'll hand over fan-built communities to the entities that own the IPs they're dedicated to. Eg. r/starwars to Disney, r/startrek to Viacom/Paramount, etc. Then, old.reddit.com will stop working spontaneously, just like how they toyed with killing mobile browser access to force users to download the app, which they probably will eventually. That's going to be the final push…

They are done, 100%, this is the turning point and it's all downhill from here. They depend fundamentally on volunteer labor and every decision they've made since announcing the API change has alienated that labor. The morale of every mod I know is in the tank. The solution for this was incredibly simple. Reddit you want to charge for the API? Go right ahead, we all want you to make money. But when the volunteer labo…

Exactly. I canceled my monthly subscription and logged out. I mostly loved Reddit for long for pieces anyway, so I'm going to pay more attention to Substack and see how that emerges.

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#374

Post by drumhead »

randycupertino wrote: post #167
spazx wrote: post #109

Smelled this one coming miles away. Next, they'll hand over fan-built communities to the entities that own the IPs they're dedicated to. Eg. r/starwars to Disney, r/startrek to Viacom/Paramount, etc. Then, old.reddit.com will stop working spontaneously, just like how they toyed with killing mobile browser access to force users to download the app, which they probably will eventually. That's going to be the final push…

> Next, they'll hand over fan-built communities to the entities that own the IPs they're dedicated to. Eg. r/starwars to Disney, This happened on the r/audible subreddit, the official audibledotcom customer service account became a mod and started deleting all the threads remotely critical of audible or amazon. The subreddit revolved and they were removed as a mod but it was a solid 5-months of nary a harsh word. If…

The whole reason to Google Reddit results is for independent enthusiast opinions positive and especially negative. Corporatised subs are going to kill that dead for many things. Another nail in the coffin of Reddit. Love of money truly is the root of all evil.

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#375

Post by spiderice »

jchw wrote: post #213
egeozcan wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are these servers like subreddits, or more like email providers? Is there a "see all, interact with all, no restrictions" lemmy server? Help! :)

That's kind of the thing about the fediverse: that's basically not possible. Any instance that doesn't engage in some blocking will probably be blocked for what it doesn't block. You could, of course, run your own instance, but obviously that's its own can of worms. So... It's tricky. edit: also, sites like joinmastodon USUALLY just completely exclude anything too controversial, for pretty obvious reasons. Dunno abou…

> Any instance that doesn't engage in some blocking will probably be blocked for what it doesn't block

Yikes.. damn. I haven't really jumped in to the fediverse yet, but I've been excited about its potential. But this sounds incredibly toxic. Basically it sounds like we've gone from having to conform to the corporation's rules, to having to conform to the center of the venn diagram or else you get shut off. Am I misunderstanding?

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#376

Post by [deleted] »

janalsncm wrote: post #31

Reddit could have avoided all of this years ago by building out the tools that moderators claim to need. Instead, they relied on third parties to create them. Doing this would have nullified mods’ strongest justification for protesting. While removing 3rd party apps is certainly annoying for users, mods are what keep the site functioning. The fact that Reddit chose to take this course of action tells me that they don…

[deleted]

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#377

Post by hef19898 »

safety1st wrote: post #212
spazx wrote: post #109

Smelled this one coming miles away. Next, they'll hand over fan-built communities to the entities that own the IPs they're dedicated to. Eg. r/starwars to Disney, r/startrek to Viacom/Paramount, etc. Then, old.reddit.com will stop working spontaneously, just like how they toyed with killing mobile browser access to force users to download the app, which they probably will eventually. That's going to be the final push…

They are done, 100%, this is the turning point and it's all downhill from here. They depend fundamentally on volunteer labor and every decision they've made since announcing the API change has alienated that labor. The morale of every mod I know is in the tank. The solution for this was incredibly simple. Reddit you want to charge for the API? Go right ahead, we all want you to make money. But when the volunteer labo…

Whatever the outcome of this si, an I never used Reddit, it seems to have been an incredibly dumb idea to do all of that before the IPO...

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#378

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

Klonoar wrote: post #62

One somewhat-related bit on the topic of moderators: does it bother anyone else that the stewards of some of these communities are effectively 100% anonymous? Are we actually okay with these spaces that shape significant discussion/sentiment being guided by people who lack accountability? I want to be clear that I'm not saying we should be doxxing mods or anything, but if there is a significant changeover of moderato…

> One somewhat-related bit on the topic of moderators: does it bother anyone else that the stewards of some of these communities are effectively 100% anonymous? Are we actually okay with these spaces that shape significant discussion/sentiment being guided by people who lack accountability?

That doesn't follow; just because people aren't going by their real-world names doesn't mean that they're not accountable. For that matter, what would their real name even tell you? Okay, user someusername1 is actually John Doe and lives at 123 Main St. What exactly do you know now that makes you more comfortable with them being a mod, that you couldn't tell by their history of moderation and interaction in the forum where they're a mod?

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#379

Post by goykasi »

atraac wrote: post #350
goykasi wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im not a fan of how reddit is handling the situation, but: > To push an app no-one ever liked, you know that, but whatever. No-one likes “new” Reddit either, you know that, but whatever. Who’s even gonna use the site after this? Is just not true at all unless you have actual stats to back that up. A ton of people disagree with that take. The site has grown a massive amount since the new design was released in 2018. S…

> They are trying to keep the main, core userbase happy. But there's a very simple way to do that... sit down with people, figure out a solution that doesn't involve a single dev spending 20m USD a year just to maintain an app that people like. There's multitudes of ways this whole thing could've been solved, they clearly don't wont to solve it. Paid API is NOT going to make reddit profitable, especially at this pric…

100% agreement with you here. You have one of the first logical arguments for any push back.

> figure out a solution that doesn't involve a single dev spending 20m USD a year just to maintain an app that people like

Absolutely, I was hoping that would happen when I saw the first Apollo thread(s) a few weeks ago. But Christian took this very personally, and he decided to take his toys and go home. reddit is not at all innocent here. They definitely had many missteps, but I think both sides did. And now that talks have broken down, reddit has little reason to come back to the table.

> Paid API is NOT going to make reddit profitable, especially at this price. It's funny to me that anyone actually even believes that. Hosting costs are not the problem, they have 2000 employees. For a site that can't get any feature fully functioning, has one of the worst ads in the business that noone wants to buy and is almost fully maintained by community for free, it's quite a lot of employees.

This is the heart of it for me personally. reddit has much bigger problems than just the API hosting/pricing. Drawing the line in the sand about the API and profitability doesnt make a lot of sense. Having 2000 employees (why?), hosting images and videos (value?), nfts (why?) and not following through on features is their actual downfall. They pivoted away from their core competency -- content aggregation and easy to use forums. I think they will survive though.

Re: Reddit is removing moderators that protest by taking their communities private

#380

Post by shirro »

cryptoegorophy wrote: post #152
spazx wrote: post #109

Smelled this one coming miles away. Next, they'll hand over fan-built communities to the entities that own the IPs they're dedicated to. Eg. r/starwars to Disney, r/startrek to Viacom/Paramount, etc. Then, old.reddit.com will stop working spontaneously, just like how they toyed with killing mobile browser access to force users to download the app, which they probably will eventually. That's going to be the final push…

Any good alternative? I like hacker news for now that it still got some comments worth reading and interesting articles

Hacker News is till great though the more I get exposed to the whole ActivityPub fediverse thing the more I wish it wasn't disconnected. I was in a read only HN app earlier today and wanted to post a comment to HN and instantly wished I could post a link into jerboa's search and have Hacker News available as a community.

The technology is getting there. The problem is the communities need time to grow. Star Trek fans have made a real effort. The bulk of reddit content is lowest common denominator shit and those consumers want everything handed to them fully formed. They aren't going to deal with server instability and submit bug reports and try and build new communities. They will delete Apollo and install the Reddit official app.

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