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US could soon approve MDMA therapy

nature.com

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Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#371

Post by taeric »

Alupis wrote: post #343
taeric wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm almost swayed by the animal cruelty argument, at the same time, the best hunters I know are all bow hunters. Such that, yes, it will be harder; but hunting isn't supposed to be easy. Guns are largely fun for most that have them. Little else. Such that I don't think that changes things. I should note that I've probably owned more guns than makes sense. Had friends with desert eagles. There is basically no reason f…

So, please, play the scenario out. You take away all the legal guns... now what? Violence ends? Right? Right? What's the plan for taking away all the illegal guns? What's the plan to protect citizens that are now disarmed? Why don't we just focus on taking away all the illegal guns? Oh, right... we have been... for 89 years - yet there's more illegal guns on the streets today than in 1934. What a shock... Kind of lik…

At what point did I propose taking away "all legal guns?"

I have put forth regulating all guns. But, it doesn't take an active imagination to see that regulation is not a total banning/taking away. We still have cats, after all.

Edit: leaving cats, for obvious reasons. I meant cars.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#373

Post by webworker »

Starcrunch wrote: post #256
wnolens wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice to read your journey. Glad you found a way through. I had a similar experience to the first half of your story. Was so unfulfilled in tech that I ended up quitting and took time off not working, trying lots of different things, getting very frustrated and depressed along the way. I did try LSD (ok, a lot of LSD) and instead of it helping me process/sort through/integrate some of my troubles it added new ones and…

I'm glad to hear from someone else who's honest about their negative experience. Psychedelics seem to somehow have simply amazing PR: plentiful testimonies of their life-changing abilities, encouraging us to try them, but very little acknowledgement of their dark side. The subculture is very quick to brush away anything that goes against the narrative of the "mind-opening wonder drugs that big pharma doesn't want you…

Geese. I occasionally get the sleep paralysis and I hate it. It makes me feel like I'm being pinned down to my bed. Never tried any psychedelics though, and sometimes I think I should stop being so stiff when it's around/available. Reading this is helpful and I genuinely appreciate the warning.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#374

Post by eimrine »

abyssin wrote: post #338
eimrine wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your forgot to mention one more possible case: it is not science because of some political reasons.

Research was made impossible for 30 years but now there’s a thriving literature.

How much time and how many countries are there in your definition of "now"? And how on Earth the Pihkal has been published exactly 30 years ago if the research was "impossible"?

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#375

Post by abyssin »

hammyhavoc wrote: post #368
abyssin wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, my recent bad experience was in what I expected to be the safest and most therapeutic environment available to me. What I discovered instead was an irrational culture with an immature fascination for shamanism. My individual experiences, informed by my research, were more beneficial (and cheaper as well). Knowing the topic and a trip-sitter you know might prove a better choice than trusting self-procla…

I have heard a lot of similar tales regarding the shamanism and rejection of science and reasoning, making all kinds of outrageous claims about what it can "cure", which just isn't physically possible.

The biggest claim is that psychedelics are a tool to access a profound truth about the nature of life, the universe, etc. The scientific literature shows there’s a correlation between the intensity of the mysticism experience and its therapeutic benefits. The problem is truth. If experiencing religious visions and feelings is followed by getting better, it doesn’t mean God actually exists, or that your “soul” left your body.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#376

Post by _a_a_a_ »

hammyhavoc wrote: post #367
_a_a_a_ wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish more people spoke about their negative experiences with psychedelics. that > It's a sobering and necessary counterpoint... and that.

I don't think drugs are good or bad. The intent behind why and how people use them is what counts. However, if people want these things to see progress in acceptance and safe use, hearing anecdata from all demographics is important, including those with negative experiences. One thing that people didn't want to talk about with the cannabis legalization boom was how common paranoid schizophrenia is. My step-father has…

> including those with negative experiences

Nobody is hiding negative experiences. Again, you come across as wanting more badness than perhaps there actually is.

Yes, we know about this kind of thing . I personally know of alcohol deaths, permanent damage from amphetamines, addiction to cannabis, and second-hand reports of mental illness from cannabis abuse (note: abuse not use), anecdotal but reliable reports about mental damage from LSD. These conversations are happening.

You seem only receptive to the negative side of things.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#377

Post by gwd »

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #297
gwd wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Alcohol I think the real issue [EDIT with trying to restrict alcohol] is that alcohol is so easy to produce. I've got some "tea wine" brewing ATM that consists of tea, sugar, and bread yeast. You could literally make hard apple cider with just pressed apple juice in a jar with a lid loose enough to let the CO2 escape; the apples will have wild yeast on them already. No idea how to make MDMA, but I presume it's nowh…

It's not that easy, but it's not exactly difficult, either. I've seen more complicated baking recipes. The hard part is not having the DEA kick down your door, shoot your dog, and throw you in a cage.

I haven't made hard apple cider that way, but I have made apple cider vinegar that way -- press the apples and put the juice in a jar covered in cheesecloth, to let the oxygen in, and wait a month. The wild yeast converts sugar to alcohol, and the wild acetobacter converts alcohol to vinegar. For alcohol, everything else is either about improving the flavor, or reducing the risk of infection.

Personally I wouldn't risk the DEA either; but a lot of people would -- particularly if it seemed like "everyone else" was doing it too.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#378

Post by atchoo »

csydas wrote: post #312
hammyhavoc wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish more people spoke about their negative experiences with psychedelics. It's a sobering and necessary counterpoint to most of what floods these threads of how it changed someone's life, but the "how" is largely ambiguous.

I think this kind of misses the bigger reason that there isn't a lot of formal discussion on psychedelics; people are worried/nervous to talk about it too openly because psychedelics are "hard" drugs. Even for research purposes, they're tightly controlled which ends up suppressing a lot of practical research and you _have_ to rely on hearsay and anecdata to make a decision. Edit: Also, as another commenter noted, bec…

> in Amsterdam where mushrooms are legal, the shops are quite careful to ensure they are giving you the rundown on what to prepare for, dosages, finding a comfortable and reliable setting, safety, etc.

Last time I was in Amsterdam was quite a few years ago but... magic mushrooms were illegal. Instead they sell psilocybin truffles so roughly the same thing. When I've bought them, from a few different popular shops, no words of caution or safety were exchanged.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#379

Post by atchoo »

opportune wrote: post #290
lr4444lr wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After taking it 1 time?

This was after my third time taking it in which I had a “bad trip” featuring those subsequently recurring intrusive thoughts

Would you mind explaining what you mean by intrusive thoughts please? What type of things and when? Specific triggers? How do you know they are LSD based?

I'm not sure how many of my thoughts are not intrusive!

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#380

Post by atchoo »

wnolens wrote: post #335
waboremo wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you in contact with a therapist you enjoy talking to? They're phenomenal when it comes to helping tackle ruminating and intrusive/impulsive thoughts. If you don't, you'll want to go through the (unfortunately tedious) process of finding one that deals with CBT or ACT. I suggest this to people even when they feel they are out of a pit primarily because being out of the pit is the perfect time to get help, as they…

I've seen 5-6 therapists over the past decade. I'd love to find the right one, but so far my experience is between neutral and strongly negative. My closest friends are far more empathic and life-experienced people, a few quite capable of removing themselves from a conversation for my benefit.

From reports of therapists themselves - a huge part of their value is essentially a friend for hire - human contact with someone that will take the time to listen to you and take an interest. Lots of people don't have that but you sound like you do.

IMHO things like CBT and ACT can be self-studied successfully from books. Writing can achieve much of the effect of talking therapy - both expressing difficult thoughts and obtaining objectivity. Maybe not for everyone but I think nerdy autodidacts can cover a huge amount of ground without paying a professional. Such individuals might also be in need of supportive human contact though!

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