Live data from Hacker News

My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

twitter.com

371–380 of 597 posts

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#371
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Updates improve wash efficiency, etc. Not just security updates. Maybe a new cleaning powder comes with a new algo. Maybe there's a better dosing for certain levels of water hardness. But the gist is that it updates the whole module. I'm fine with this, Miele are like Bosch in that they look after the hardware they sell for decades rather than considering it deprecated the day it leaves a shop floor.

Every dishwasher I've ever used, your best bet is to put everything on full blast, least efficient settings. Otherwise the dishes get "almost" clean. I always imagine the engineers standing around patting themselves on the back after testing, and marveling how their ideas worked so well most of the dishes got clean. The dishes all need to be totally clean, every time, or it's useless to me.

I can guarantee that the majority of the ineffective cycles are there because of environmental regulations (energy star in the US; there are equivalents in other western countries).

The big one that drives me nuts on new cars are all the auto start/stop at idle systems. They eat car batteries and starters (increase wear from oil starvation on startup too - consumer car engines are not positively lubricated; pressure has to pump back up every time the engine starts) and there is no way to disable them other than pushing a button every time you start your car (or hacking around with the wiring), but I'm sure they are critical in obtaining higher gas milage requirements so expect them to proliferate. It's crap that happens when you focus on one metric - gas milage - to the exclusion of "the big picture" such as total carbon footprint over the life of the car including the manufacturing and replacement costs/environmental impact of replacing prematurely worn out parts from "energy efficient" design decisions.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#372
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it could also get functionality updates. For example they could upload a new totally different UX loved by the designers and that nobody else understands how to use ;-)

> To be fair, it could also get functionality updates This is an important point that owners[1] sometimes miss. For example, if the owner makes a deal to partner with the maker of a particular detergent tab, the owner could create a new feature that only works with those tabs and not regular powder detergent. 1: Owner: the person who owns the firmware being sent over WiFi.

Or, maybe the detergents don't matter all that much and should be generic enough that you can use them in any dishwasher.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#374

I have a smart dishwasher. Anyone who doesn't have one and is bashing them simply hasn't had the pleasure of trying them out. They're pure joy. My 2 year old loves to help me load the dishes. She complains if I don't let her close the soap container and then press the button to start the machine. It's never broken dishes on me. Never failed to clean anything. I've never forgotten to start it, or forgotten to add soap…

That's really cute. My 1 year old comes racing towards the dishwasher the moment they hear me open the door. Usually to take the cutlery out which isn't what needs doing most of the time.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why Stallman invented free software: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-impor... .

If I buy a smart heater that connects to some backend using free software and the company shuts off that backend I'm sure as heck not solving that problem by editing the software and reinstalling it to do some new different thing. And I'm a professional software engineer. Free software means that in theory you can modify and maintain the software you run on your machines to your liking (not hardware though, or backen…

If it uses free software, you can reprogram it to connect to your own server (or anyone else's who wants your money).

> But this is so incredibly far beyond the capabilities of the enormous majority of people that it might as well not be a thing in the first place.

You don't have to be a programmer to benefit from free software. The latter simply removes the monopoly of the software developers and allows alternative developers to work for you if you pay them.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Miele speed oven that arrived with a major defect: Microwave worked, but heat modes didn't. They sent a repair crew and there was a missing wire harness in the circuitry. It never could have worked. My experience with "high end" appliances in general (Bosch, Miele, Wolf, Subzero) is that it's a tax on "rich people". They're not better than top-line LG, etc.

I agree on a lot of them. Miele however, my mother's last Miele dishwasher lasted 22 years and they were still selling spare parts up until the day she replaced it. That's pretty unheard of in today's day and age

But that's the Miele of 22 years ago that you are talking about. Not necessarily the one that exists today.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#377
post #5

Looks like a Miele. That menu can be exited (the image where it says "Software Update", the tiny bit on the right... that's a scroll bar of multiple options including the ability to exit this menu), but it does imply that the dishwasher is already connected to Wi-Fi and that it has determined that there is an update available. There are few times that a dishwasher is interacted with, if not when you go into the menu…

What are you using as your home router setup? (off topic but interested)

Still stuck on Ubiquiti things. It does allow wrangling with the networks and the UI is very pretty... but configuring this to disable the Ubiquiti Cloud and yet enable most features locally was a PITA.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every dishwasher I've ever used, your best bet is to put everything on full blast, least efficient settings. Otherwise the dishes get "almost" clean. I always imagine the engineers standing around patting themselves on the back after testing, and marveling how their ideas worked so well most of the dishes got clean. The dishes all need to be totally clean, every time, or it's useless to me.

Don't use detergent pods: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rBO8neWw04

Yup - the amount of excess detergent alone that is being washed into the wastewater systems is staggering when you think about how much is extra detergent in fixed size pods is wasted across the board.

My parents had a GE dishwasher that auto dosed a liquid paste dishwashing detergent. It worked great, only dispensing what the dishwasher sensed the dirt load called for. For some reason my mom hated it and they replaced that dishwasher with one that they now use pods with. Sigh - I don't think she liked the feeling of not being in control.

We humans can be so annoying sometimes.

EDIT: that GE also did it without requiring a wifi connection or firmware updates :p

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#379
post #40

Smart devices are overly complex. The entire point should have been to make devices work for you, but now when you buy a ‘smart’ washing machine, it requires you 30min of setup. Downloading apps, connecting it to wifi, providing GPS location etc. why? What’s the point. We need devices that make life simpler. Straight out of the box.

A washing machine already requires a fair amount of time spent on installation. I don't think "it doesn't work out of the box" is a good argument when talking about 200 pound appliances that have to be hooked up to your plumbing.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#380
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time-delay does not require remote control at all.

on the other hand I'd rather pull my nails out than input a start time on a washing machine or oven. The UI are always atrocious for this.

Mine is just a dial that you turn until the correct hour. Like increasing or decreasing the volume
Post reply on HN