Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown • Hacker News Board

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#371

Post by sorokod » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 7:14 PM UTC

cronix wrote: post #159

I think the whole dream/goal of building a self driving car on top of a system completely designed for manual human interpretation and input is asinine, and that's before you even consider the complexity of adding other humans manually driving or suddenly walking in front of your car from a blind spot. Instead of building a digital system from the ground up, we are forcing manufacturers to come up with tech to read s…

> we are forcing manufacturers to come up with tech ...

No one is forcing manufacturers to do anything. They a perceive a business opportunity and take it.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#372

Post by frumper » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 7:14 PM UTC

sleepybrett wrote: post #208

rjp0008 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the autopilot was programmed to go in a straight line and at an intersection decided to steer into a crosswalk. Agree this is a weird and very concerning bug. > Not to mention the fact that it seems entirely legal for a company like Tesla to test such dangerous functionality on public streets with other drivers and pedestrians, with zero permission or regulation. This driver seems to be someone who I would be ok wi…

The problem, as I see it, is that the longer driver uses the autopilot feature the less attention they will pay to it as long as it doesn't do something nuts like this. My understanding is that this occurred soon after a new 'beta' update to the autopilot system. I'm not sure how this is surfaced to the user, if you need to opt into this new version etc. My fear is that a new version of the autopilot system could hav…

Just curious, how does one prove 100% safe? Even if Tesla's were show to be safe on every road in existence there are always too many variables. Weather, construction, road condition, other drivers, objects falling into the roadway, on and on.

There is some level of reasonable safety that should be expected, but proving 100% safe isn't a realistic goal, nor is it even a standard for existing automobiles.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#373

Post by belter » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 7:15 PM UTC

ChrisKnott wrote: post #63

Maximise the video and watch the left hand HUD pane from 0:10 to 0:11. The dotted black line coming from the front of the car (which I am assuming is the intended route) quickly snaps from straight ahead, to a hair pin right, to a normal right turn. Ignoring the fact that the right turn happened to be into a pedestrian crossing with people on it - what was the car even trying to do? The sat-nav shows it should have j…

The problem shown here: https://twitter.com/robinivski/status/1438580718813261833/ph...

Is the reason why applying Silicon Valley hubris to self driving type problems is not going to work.

It's not an exaggeration to say, in 2050 ...We still be beta testing FSD on Mars roads :-)

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#374

Post by yellow_lead » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 7:15 PM UTC

mwint wrote: post #52

This looks like a weird navigation failure. It certainly shouldn't have made this maneuver at all, but it's provably false to say it would have run over the pedestrians... this frame shows it: https://i.stack.imgur.com/2KymN.png Context - this is after the sudden sharp turn, as the driver is taking over. - We can see the system is still driving itself; the driver has not taken over and is not a factor. The blue steer…

I love that your defense is that the car would've stopped closer to the pedestrian than the driver did.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#375

Post by mrguyorama » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 7:18 PM UTC

mcguire wrote: post #354

emn13 wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The box isn't as black as you might think; they're not training some monolithic AI model, there are separated systems involved. Also, the models aren't entirely freeform; i.e. engineers embed knowledge of how the world is structured into those networks. They can use those intermediates to project a kind of thought process others can look at - and you've probably seen videos and images of that kind of thing too; i.e.…

" Also, the models aren't entirely freeform; i.e. engineers embed knowledge of how the world is structured into those networks. " In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6. "What are you doing?", asked Minsky. "I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-tac-toe", Sussman replied. "Why is the net wired randomly?", asked Minsky. "I do not want it to have an…

>the incident where the Tesla collided with a pedestrian pushing a bicycle in Arizona

That was Uber's self driving car program. Notably, the SUV they were using has had pedestrian detecting auto-stopping for several years, though I'm sure it's not 100%

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#376

Post by frumper » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 7:21 PM UTC

sleepybrett wrote: post #230

antattack wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla on Autopilot is not autonomous. I look at current driver assistance systems as human-robot hybrid. Any driver assistance system should be required to be clear in it's intentions to the driver and give time to react, otherwise it's like a wild horse.

it's sold as an 'autopilot' that means 'automatic pilot' that does not imply hybridization, that implies full automation.

I'm also not sure where you get that idea, it's clear when purchasing that Autopilot is a fancy cruise control to assist drivers and that full attention is required at all times.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#377

Post by bhelkey » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 7:22 PM UTC

notJim wrote: post #361

WA wrote: post #340

Reminder that Tesla will kill critical videos of FSD, but still to this day has not taken down the fabricated "full self driving demo" from their own website since 2016: https://www.tesla.com/videos/autopilot-self-driving-hardware... Tesla (and fanboys) say that they are clear about the limited capabilities of Autopilot and FSD when in reality, they indirectly support all fan-videos by letting them live on YouTube wh…

> Tesla will kill critical videos of FSD Examples?

The implication is that Tesla DMCAed the video in TFA.

Obviously, I don't know if that is true that, 1 the video was DMCAed and 2 that Tesla sent the DMCA takedown request.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#378

Post by paxys » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 7:24 PM UTC

sidibe wrote: post #362

sorokod wrote: post #319

If a pedestrian got hurt, what would be the legal liability of the driver who didn't have his hands on the steering wheel?

100% on the driver. "Full self driving" is for marketing only and they supposedly make it very clear to the customers.

This will have to be settled in court eventually (I'm guessing very soon, looking at all these videos). It's very unlikely that car manufacturers will be able to avoid all responsibility just because of fine print in the terms of service.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#379

Post by weeblewobble » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 7:25 PM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #307

antattack wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where you get the idea. Even plane autopilot will not land the plane w/o Pilot's supervision. People who don't read manuals put themselves at risk. Even simple systems like Cruise Control carry plenty of warnings that one should be familiar with when operating (from Ford's manual): WARNING: Always pay close attention to changing road conditions when using adaptive cruise control. The system does not repl…

So pilots will get the distinction, but non-pilots think it means self-driving.

I don't think so. Most people are aware that autopilot exists for airplanes, and they are also aware that there are always human pilots on board the plane.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#380

Post by gpm » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 7:26 PM UTC

FartyMcFarter wrote: post #243

gpm wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have it backwards. With humans driving there is a constant and unending stream of student drivers, because every new human must learn from scratch. There is no silver lining. With self driving it takes longer for the one individual to learn, but the difference is that there is only the one individual, and it need not ever die. The learning is transferable between cars, regressions between generations need not be…

That sounds great in theory, but in practice the technology is not there for reliable and demonstrable learning of that type.

Given the number of different people pouring millions to billions of dollars at the problem, I think it's pretty incredible for you to be so certain that that is the case.