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Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

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Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#371

Post by mauricio »

makecheck wrote: post #316

The Mac App Store gives a hint at what would happen if there was any choice. The amount of software actually available for the Mac is far, far greater than what’s listed in the store. Furthermore, while some quality and notable apps are still in the Mac App Store, many well-known apps are not there. The number of lousy apps is also extremely high every time I go to search or just look at the front page, to the point…

I would disagree with the premise that the two stores are comparable. The alternative to not use the Mac App Store is not just financial, but also allows developers to bypass the sandbox requirements.

Whether or not Apple permits alternative payment systems for iOS/iPadOS, all the apps will likely remain sandboxed.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#372

Post by vineyardmike »

judge2020 wrote: post #257
ehsankia wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but the point is that developers should have the option of rolling out their own solution if they don't need all the features Apple provides or agree with the fee. This in turn creates competition which may reduce rates all around.

The common argument against that is that the 30% also goes to actually developing iOS - you could envision the margin Apple makes on every iPhone as one that goes towards the R&D costs of developing the hardware, while the post-sale revenue goes towards the post-sale costs of developing iOS (and all the updates they test/push out for 5+ years after the device is released).

Apple admitted this wasn't true in a lawsuit. There were actual internal convos about how they didn't need as much money...

> Separately, the documents show that in 2011, Schiller suggested that Apple could "ratchet down from 70/30 to 75/25 or even 80/20 if we can maintain a $1B a year run rate," in terms of App Store commissions, since the 30 percent commission rate would "not last forever."

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/08/20/apple-sideloading-plans...

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#374

Post by kobalsky »

swiley wrote: post #347
justapassenger wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want to explain to your grandma how to get the right repo so she can get WhatsApp?

I don’t want my grandma using WhatsApp. The corporation that owns it behaves pathologically as a matter of policy and I have no idea what they’d try to do to her. So yes. That’s a perfect example of how this would be an improvement.

preventing your grandma from using whatsapp through technological friction must be one of the worst ways to handle it.

this extremely selfish, I've seen whatsapp let old people enjoy internet like we did as kids.

if you want to be a responsible member of the tech community at least take the time to educate your own grandma.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#375

Post by xondono »

leshenka wrote: post #336
ilikehurdles wrote: post #329

As a consumer, I’m pretty sad about this. I don’t miss the days of having to go through 5 different user flows to cancel 5 different subscriptions. With iTunes, all of my purchases and subscriptions are in once place. Losing that sucks.

I don't think you'll lose this. It will be like "sign in with aplle" — you will be able to use different purchase algorithms, or apple pay.

Except that there’s an incentive to force users into using other services.

If the choice is left to developers, each developer will choose what suits him best.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#376

Post by haswell »

Joeri wrote: post #364
makecheck wrote: post #316

The Mac App Store gives a hint at what would happen if there was any choice. The amount of software actually available for the Mac is far, far greater than what’s listed in the store. Furthermore, while some quality and notable apps are still in the Mac App Store, many well-known apps are not there. The number of lousy apps is also extremely high every time I go to search or just look at the front page, to the point…

Sometimes I try to imagine what the app store rules would look like if apple had to abide by those same rules for all of their own apps. I imagine the rules would be much more lenient, app review a lot less error prone, and developers would be chafed far less by those golden handcuffs. Pretty sure apple’s developer documentation would still be bad though.

I work on a platform that provides its subscribers with a store for 1st and 3rd party apps/solutions built on that platform.

Every app delivered on this store must go through the same review process whether it's internally built or not. This has led to healthy innovation on the app store and deep empathy for the 3rd party developer.

To be fair, it is possible to ship components that are part of the core platform outside of this mechanism, but I think just having one subset of internal development go through the same review/approval channels as 3rd party apps has been very positive for our developer community.

I'd love to see the same thing here.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#377

Post by [deleted] »

Joeri wrote: post #364
makecheck wrote: post #316

The Mac App Store gives a hint at what would happen if there was any choice. The amount of software actually available for the Mac is far, far greater than what’s listed in the store. Furthermore, while some quality and notable apps are still in the Mac App Store, many well-known apps are not there. The number of lousy apps is also extremely high every time I go to search or just look at the front page, to the point…

Sometimes I try to imagine what the app store rules would look like if apple had to abide by those same rules for all of their own apps. I imagine the rules would be much more lenient, app review a lot less error prone, and developers would be chafed far less by those golden handcuffs. Pretty sure apple’s developer documentation would still be bad though.

[deleted]

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#379

Post by FireBeyond »

mrtksn wrote: post #90
CrimsonRain wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has no right to restrict any API usage in the iOS that is running on MY hardware that I fully paid them for.

Apple doesn't do that. The restrictions Apple impose are on distribution(i.e. you can't use Apple's distribution services to distribute your app to the users of that service if Apple don't let you), you can do whatever you like to your own device and Apple can't do anything about it. That's why it's perfectly legal to jailbreak your phone.

That's splitting hairs. They do do that, exactly by imposing restrictions on distribution.

Your argument is: "You're free to write an app for yourself, but Apple isn't restricting you from using private APIs, they're restricting you from distributing it using their resources, oh and they're blocking any alternative distribution methods, too."

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#380

Post by judge2020 »

vineyardmike wrote: post #372
judge2020 wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The common argument against that is that the 30% also goes to actually developing iOS - you could envision the margin Apple makes on every iPhone as one that goes towards the R&D costs of developing the hardware, while the post-sale revenue goes towards the post-sale costs of developing iOS (and all the updates they test/push out for 5+ years after the device is released).

Apple admitted this wasn't true in a lawsuit. There were actual internal convos about how they didn't need as much money... > Separately, the documents show that in 2011, Schiller suggested that Apple could "ratchet down from 70/30 to 75/25 or even 80/20 if we can maintain a $1B a year run rate," in terms of App Store commissions, since the 30 percent commission rate would "not last forever." https://www.macrumors.co…

It’s not that they don’t need more money, it’s that, in my opinion, they also shouldn’t be forced to operate on razor-thin margins. What is an acceptable profit margin? There’s no clear answer so you’d be reliant on a judge or congress to determine that.
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