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Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

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Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#371

Post by Retric »

runjake wrote: post #346
Retric wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s perceptual hashing not AI classification. “NeuralHash is a perceptual hashing function that maps images to numbers.” The perceptual hashing is based on AI techniques. “The system computes these hashes by using an embedding network to produce image descriptors and then converting those descriptors to integers using a Hyperplane LSH (Locality Sensitivity Hashing) process.” The difference is AI classification is ba…

It sure sounds a lot like AI to me. Saying its just hashes seems misleading to me. From the PDF: "The system generates NeuralHash in two steps. First, an image is passed into a convolutional neural network to generate an N-dimensional, floating-point descriptor. Second, the descriptor is passed through a hashing scheme to convert the N floating-point numbers to M bits. Here, M is much smaller than the number of bits…

It’s closely related to AI, but it’s not image classification. The important thing is your trying to match specific files to hashes rather than features to an image so the output doesn’t need to be human readable.

Image classification on the other hand cares about if the image contains say a stop sign or a trash can. That’s useful for self driving cars etc.

Aka classification you might want to match two different bands playing the same song as identical. Where perception hashing would want them to be classified differently.

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#372

Post by [deleted] »

shuckles wrote: post #110
Someone1234 wrote: post #52

If it matches, am I guilty until found innocent? I have no illicit images, but false positives are always going to be a problem and even at sub-1% rates if you're scanning literally every image stored on an iOS devices that could still be thousands of wrong matches. If I lose the false-positive lottery, am I going to have the police calling and have my mugshot in the evening news for "CP on their device" in particula…

In the United States, the process of reporting potential images of CSAM is defined by the government, and a technology company’s active responsibility ends with a report to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children’s CyberTipline: https://www.missingkids.org/gethelpnow/cybertipline#whathapp...

[deleted]

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#373

Post by mancerayder »

Will Google by some miracle be the company that offers freedom from forced snooping?

It seems not, so we have a choice between this and Google's always-track-you setup.

I'm sure no one here has any illegal pictures, but the precedent is terrifying. What about copyrighted images or downloaded videos without DRM ?

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#374

Post by get52 »

pas wrote: post #331
dopamean wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think there's a reasonable chance that you have CP on your computer why wouldn't you delete all the stuff? This is not complicated.

cat /dev/urandom and it also has CP, oh noes! quick delete everything. Hoarding porn is kind of useless nowadays, especially without any kind of selection and categorization, but maybe someone does it because it's their hobby (or obsession), who knows. Also if a lot of people has a bunch of porn images scraped from forums it's quite possible that eventually some of that might become illegal as the laws change here or…

Dude, this is all great in theory but in a court of law you'll get completely horsefucked if you have child porn on your hard drive. The judge and jury won't care about /dev/random or a fall to reform

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#375

Post by h_anna_h »

get52 wrote: post #374
pas wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cat /dev/urandom and it also has CP, oh noes! quick delete everything. Hoarding porn is kind of useless nowadays, especially without any kind of selection and categorization, but maybe someone does it because it's their hobby (or obsession), who knows. Also if a lot of people has a bunch of porn images scraped from forums it's quite possible that eventually some of that might become illegal as the laws change here or…

Dude, this is all great in theory but in a court of law you'll get completely horsefucked if you have child porn on your hard drive. The judge and jury won't care about /dev/random or a fall to reform

You would think that in our "great" and "fair" legal system simply scrapping a legal site would not be enough to ruin your life. Especially if no harm was done and no intention of harm was there.

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#376

Post by get52 »

h_anna_h wrote: post #375
get52 wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, this is all great in theory but in a court of law you'll get completely horsefucked if you have child porn on your hard drive. The judge and jury won't care about /dev/random or a fall to reform

You would think that in our "great" and "fair" legal system simply scrapping a legal site would not be enough to ruin your life. Especially if no harm was done and no intention of harm was there.

Believe me, as someone who runs a website I completely agree with you. I just also know the courts will not be understanding under any circumstance.

I don't allow image uploads at all now out of fear I'll back up my site and accidentally download CP. It's ridiculous, all it takes is one dumbfuck pedophile uploading a single file ( completely out of my control ) and I'll get thrown in prison for 10 years

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#377

Post by anupamchugh »

partiallypro wrote: post #14

I really don't see how this is going to end well, there could be perfectly innocent photos on someone's phone of their own children doing perfectly normal things that kids do. Like a kid running butt naked around the house, or a photo of something like a rash that is sent to a nurse friend for advice on what it is etc. I'm all for protecting children from being abused, but how are they going to filter what is normal…

Apparently, there's a Threshold Secret Sharing (TSI) technology in place to eliminate false positive. Besides, NeuralHash will basically match your photos against a database provided by NCMEC.

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#378

Post by user-the-name »

notadev wrote: post #261
babyshake wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So this means it is checking if you are sharing known CP images? That does seem to be much less invasive and problematic as there is likely no good reason to be sharing these images.

It’s not just checking files you are sharing, it’s also scanning files that exist on your device. The worry, or slippery slope argument, is that it’s one step away from scanning your device for other types of content, like memes critical of the government or just general wrongthink.

Slippery slope fallacy, not argument. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#379

Post by Markoff »

vimacs2 wrote: post #26
Markoff wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Except the difference is nudity is natural and sometimes instrumental - for washing, bathroom use, and medical care for example - and denying basic healthcare to your children is not, unless you plan to be instrumental in your child's demise and that comes natural to you.

COVID vaccines are not basic child healthcare, heck they are not even approved for children under 12 and in many European countries not for children at all

also not sure how necessary is to take nude photos of children unless you are doctor and yes I am parent with 2 kids

taking care about your health and not willing to risk long term effects of unproven stuff someone is putting in your body seems perfectly natural to me

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#380

Post by skinkestek »

vimacs2 wrote: post #351
skinkestek wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've taken all vaccines I've been offered including BioNTech/Pfizer but: carefulness regarding new medical procedures is also completely natural. We aren't robots and we need to cut one another some slack. Different persons being mire or less risk averse is even a strength for society.

I don't disagree there, I'm just pointing out that there is a difference between the two cases.

Here is what you wrote:

> and denying basic healthcare to your children is not, unless you plan to be instrumental in your child's demise and that comes natural to you.

You wrote that in reply to someone clearly not talking about vaccines generally but the new vaccines specifically.

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