Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#261

Post by notadev » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 6:09 PM UTC

babyshake wrote: post #173

mm983 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is painful to read with the arrogant undertone while you don't actually know how CSAM scanning works. It's fuzzy hash, not ""AI"", based. Cloudflare uses it too, and last time i checked the web is still functional. https://support.cloudflare.com/hc/en-us/articles/36004610611... How about we turn the tables and have the complainers suggest a solution. Because every single time an approach to targeted child porn t…

So this means it is checking if you are sharing known CP images? That does seem to be much less invasive and problematic as there is likely no good reason to be sharing these images.

It’s not just checking files you are sharing, it’s also scanning files that exist on your device. The worry, or slippery slope argument, is that it’s one step away from scanning your device for other types of content, like memes critical of the government or just general wrongthink.

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#262

Post by colinmhayes » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 6:10 PM UTC

clusterfish wrote: post #251

colinmhayes wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fifth amendment holds that the state can't compel someone to give up their password.

Except 100 miles from the border apparently https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone

The 100 mile zone is clearly fucked up, but I haven't seen any cases of it being used to force anyone to give up their password. Even with a warrant US citizens do not have to give up their password. The only exception I've seen is a case where the defendant shared some info on their phone but refused to share everything. The judge ruled the defendant waived his fifth amendment rights in that case. I think it's clear that that was the wrong decision, but the solution is clear and easily done, don't give cops any information.

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#263

Post by coldacid » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 6:11 PM UTC

BitwiseFool wrote: post #216

coldacid wrote: post #71

Today kiddy porn, tomorrow wrongthink.

Isn't PayPal already investigating users' purchases to help the ADL put pressure on transactions which they claim to be funding hate speech?

Yes they are!

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#264

Post by skinkestek » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 6:12 PM UTC

vimacs2 wrote: post #26

Markoff wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Except the difference is nudity is natural and sometimes instrumental - for washing, bathroom use, and medical care for example - and denying basic healthcare to your children is not, unless you plan to be instrumental in your child's demise and that comes natural to you.

I've taken all vaccines I've been offered including BioNTech/Pfizer but:

carefulness regarding new medical procedures is also completely natural.

We aren't robots and we need to cut one another some slack. Different persons being mire or less risk averse is even a strength for society.

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#265

Post by heavyset_go » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 6:13 PM UTC

yellow_lead wrote: post #247

tyingq wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I have no illicit images, but false positives are always going to be a problem" Or someone that doesn't like you can MMS/iMessage/e-mail you images that match PhotoDNA image hashes. Maybe even in a way where the images don't appear to be anything alarming.

Yep, Google can break SHA1, so what hash are they using? Proprietary information I assume.

They aren't using file hashes like SHA1, but perceptual hashes and then a fuzzy metric like hamming distance to make a fuzzy match. It's entirely possible for two images that have nothing to do with each other to have similar hashes.

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#266

Post by cududa » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 6:13 PM UTC

xdennis wrote: post #181

itake wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> perfectly innocent photos on someone's phone of their own children They are using a library of human verified images to compare the hashes. Probably similar to PhotoDNA[0]. There can be false positives, but AFAIK the algorithms are not trying to identify naked children, but comparing 2 similar image hashes. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhotoDNA

It's still bad. I used to scrape pictures from many legal pornography sites. I still have hundreds of thousands of pictures. Since many are user uploaded, I imagine a small number could be real CP. Thank God, I don't use Apple. (I should probably delete them, since I've basically never used them... although they could be useful for one of those end-of-world Raspberry Pi builds: https://back7.co/home/raspberry-pi-quic…

I’ve never once wanted GIF support on HN comments until this moment. Good god man what is wrong with you

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#267

Post by macintux » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 6:13 PM UTC

smnrchrds wrote: post #245

macintux wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple cares about #1 when they feel the requests are not legal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI–Apple_encryption_dispute Apple has to comply with the law, however.

What law prompted this new feature we are discussing here?

I don’t know, and I’m certainly troubled by the story.

There is a federal law requiring electronic service providers to notify if they spot such material. Apple may be subject to that. See the “Federal CSAM Law” section here:

https://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/blog/2020/01/earn-it-act-how-b...

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#268

Post by Terretta » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 6:13 PM UTC

__blockcipher__ wrote: post #195

cm2187 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. The article confirms the title, this is not about content uploaded to the cloud: Apple’s system is less invasive in that the screening is done on the phone, and “only if there is a match is notification sent back to those searching”, said Alan Woodward, a computer security professor at the University of Surrey. “This decentralised approach is about the best approach you could adopt if you do go down this rout…

https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/14231090022805135... and https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/14231094582936289... kind of sums it up. Clearly there is an intent to progress to more than just what's been shared with iCloud. Otherwise there'd be no need for software on the devices themselves at all.

The slant I took from that thread is this is the way to comply with known-bad-hash matching requirement while preserving E2E encryption for cloud-stored content: checking hash at an end.

Don’t need to MITM when you put an M at an end.

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#269

Post by rantwasp » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 6:13 PM UTC

judge2020 wrote: post #182

kingsloi wrote: post #169

I had a very sick 8 month old baby who I obviously had a million photos of. Unfortunately, my lil girl had 9 surgeries and her little body had gone through more than people can think of. She passed in May, and it's really difficult to look back at old pictures because of how much stuff was going on, various levels of critical ICU care, pre/post surgery, etc. But it wasn't until a few months after she was born I had g…

This isn't scanning for naked children, it's known CSAM photos that are already circulating online.

i feel better already /s think about the children!! also, think about poor law enforcement and their mass surveillance attempts. throw them a bone!

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#270

Post by underseacables » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 6:16 PM UTC

This is extremely alarming, I don’t care what the reason, I don’t want apple or anyone looking through my personal photos. It’s none of their business, and the sheer chance of false positives and ruining peoples lives is far too great to let this go forward.