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Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

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Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#371

Post by bawolff »

machinelearning wrote: post #336
TulliusCicero wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously some of the details are different, they're different for every contagion, but the principle is the same: the interest in public health overrides the normal interest in preserving individual bodily autonomy, just like with vaccinations and schooling.

The details are the important part here. If you understand why people are against the vaccine, it is because they are not convinced that the vaccine results in the greatest public health. Whether this is right or wrong, trying to gloss over the differences in the details doesn't work here since the conflict is at the level of details. And no I don't agree with your point about vaccines being "different for every cont…

> most vaccines developed in the recent past have either been recombinant, attenuated/inactivated viruses or adenovirus vectored vaccines

If you list every other type of vaccine other than mRNA, then yes the majority of vaccines are one of those. I mean, you even listed adenovirus which is extremely new and only used in covid & ebola vaccines, which makes me suspect you don't actually care about the underlying technology or know much about it.

> This is especially true for the vaccines required for schooling.

The start of that movement was with the smallpox vaccine, which was quite a dangerous vaccine as far as vaccines go. Seems a weird comparison to make.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#372

Post by throwaway_12_12 »

I have been reading comments here and I'm honestly terrified how easily people are throwing judgmental or plain rude comments calling names on other people who exercise their right to make a choice - whatever the choice is.

How easily are many falling into the trap of "common good" - please think about it, almost a century ago there was a time in one country in Europe where one nation was called to spread plague, only a few years later this nation was put to gas chambers. We are going to face the same situation very soon.

If you won't have respect to the other side you will see terror, and you will always find nice and round argument to justify that terror. Seeing how much of hatred is spread in this "technical" forum I must say, the time of terror is very near.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#374

Post by hef19898 »

blub wrote: post #228
ReadEvalPost wrote: post #222

I'm really upset with this decision. I have not gotten the vaccine as I prefer the known, extremely low risk of contacting COVID over the unknown longitudinal risk of the vaccine. My right to make these personal decisions regarding my bodily autonomy is extremely important to me. Under no circumstances will I yield that decision to my employer! Their demand only further reinforces my desire not to take the vaccine. W…

You can try transferring to an EU office, it's unlikely that they can mandate vaccination there. :-)

I wouldn't bet on it. Which is a good thing if you ask me. Because without mandatory vaccinations we will prolong this shitty thing for another year, this time at the cost of children and people under 16, while we had the elderly taking the brunt of the cost so far. And all that because as a society we came to a point where we refuse to take one for the team. Not to mention we ignore our own personal health.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#375

Post by jeofken »

6f8986c3 wrote: post #84
shrubble wrote: post #56

From the first point of the Nuremberg Code: 'The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have suff…

There are several reasons for this being in the Nuremberg Code. - Nazis conducted horrific medical experiments on Jewish prisoners (who were mostly German citizens as well!). In fact, pretty much everything we know about hypothermia came from the Nazis freezing and attempting to revive prisoners. - Nazis often used promises of medical treatment to ensure compliance. The famous "showers" were one such example. Prisone…

Regarding forced experiments freezing and thawing people, can you link me some primary sources, preferably records and photos rather than just accounts? I speak German if that’s a prerequisite.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#376

Post by blub »

ano88888 wrote: post #237
ReadEvalPost wrote: post #222

I'm really upset with this decision. I have not gotten the vaccine as I prefer the known, extremely low risk of contacting COVID over the unknown longitudinal risk of the vaccine. My right to make these personal decisions regarding my bodily autonomy is extremely important to me. Under no circumstances will I yield that decision to my employer! Their demand only further reinforces my desire not to take the vaccine. W…

Given dang's comment on guideline, I really don't want to comment back . However, I am just feeling so angry. So many people have unnecessarily died because someone has the wrong idea of risk calculation or political bias in disguise despite all the scientific data. I am sorry. You have a right to not be vaccinated. You have a right to whine about it. But government and organizations also have the right from preventi…

There's nothing selfish about not wanting to undergo a medical procedure to help strangers. A vaccine is first and foremost a method for protecting oneself and one's family from disease.

The only critical aspect of this situation is that there are kids and people who can't get the vaccine. It would be great if we could protect them and people who work with kids/medical personnel should be obligated to get the vaccine with full reimbursement in case of side-effects. We should absolutely work to have healthier indoors climate through filtering, venting, etc. And I think we should all wear masks when e.g. going to the doctor or in public transport. But none of that will happen, we'll probably continue to spit on each-other and breathe stale air.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#377

Post by thaumasiotes »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #286
RubberMullet wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's like "racism is great" vs "racism is awful" Or like "racism is great" vs "racism is awful" vs "this isn't racism".

Maybe? Anyway, the main point is that there has to be a resolution, and that will only come about through conflict of some kind, which is what we're seeing playing out. People don't want to hear this, but does anyone have a plausible alternative that might actually happen? Where a debate like this was resolved sans conflict?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velvet_divorce

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#378

Post by dang »

raverbashing wrote: post #208
dang wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't take HN threads into tedious flamewar on eternal flamewar topics. We've had to ask you about this countless times. Would you please just stop? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Sorry about that dang, I see now how that comment didn't add much of value, and got carried away.

Appreciated!

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#379

Post by selphy1 »

patrec wrote: post #349
ReadEvalPost wrote: post #222

I'm really upset with this decision. I have not gotten the vaccine as I prefer the known, extremely low risk of contacting COVID over the unknown longitudinal risk of the vaccine. My right to make these personal decisions regarding my bodily autonomy is extremely important to me. Under no circumstances will I yield that decision to my employer! Their demand only further reinforces my desire not to take the vaccine. W…

> I have not gotten the vaccine as I prefer the known, extremely low risk of contacting COVID Your risk of getting Covid if not vaccinated (and leading a remotely normal lifestyle) is close to 100%. With an R0 of 6 you can't just free-ride of people who take the "unknown longitudinal risk", because even if a lot of people take the jab it's extremely unlikely we will achieve herd immunity any time soon -- even if the…

Not OP but if he has not gotten it so far with his lifestyle in 16+ months then it could be easy to think you won't get it for another 16+.

Other's just don't care, me for example. I lived in a heavily lockdown country and then said fuck it, travelled to somewhere with (near) 0 covid rules and went nightclubbing almost daily till I got it. Wasn't that bad for me. And my preference is to have it again than being coerced into putting something I don't want into my body.

If my employer makes that decision for me, then that is fucked up and I am quitting, or better yet, questioning the legality of it.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#380

Post by rualca »

josh_today wrote: post #323
rualca wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Today the entire state of New York had ZERO covid related deaths. Yet this week we saw NYC and State employees and now major private corporations mandate the vaccine. It seems NYC has been registering a daily average of new 700 confirmed cases of covid, which is growing fast. This is a lower limit of the true rate of transmission as they reflect confirmed cases through molecular tests. https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh…

> Even though covid infections in NYC are spiking, death rates are not. This is expectedly the result of the vaccination campaign. Source?

Source for which part? The numbers of NYC's infections and death rates, or that practically all covid-related deaths right now happen in patients who are not vaccinated?
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