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Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

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Re: Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

#371

Post by ric2b »

slg wrote: post #276
Method-X wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, by your own admission, you’re basing your criticism of Joe Rogan on hearsay? Also, there is absolutely nothing wrong with interviewing controversial people. Maybe I’m in the minority these days but I personally like hearing contrarian views because it allows me to form my own opinion on people and subjects without relying on others to tell me what to believe.

Plenty of news sources come up in that Google search so you say "hearsay" and I say "reporting". Either way, the guy has literally thousands of hours of podcasts. I don't think someone needs to have listened to every single minute to have an opinion on the guy. There is also a difference between someone with "contrarian views" and someone with dangerous views. I got no problem if he has someone on to talk about how w…

> I don't think someone needs to have listened to every single minute to have an opinion on the guy.

Agreed, but the least you could do is link to examples of him saying those things, since it's all recorded we don't need to rely on biased third-party reports.

Re: Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

#372

Post by Traster »

anakaine wrote: post #222
Traster wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spotify bought Rogan because they want his average listener, it's cheaper for them to stream a podcast than to pay royalties on a song. They also don't want to have to answer questions about why a podcaster they (quasi) employ is doing X controversial thing. So that's what they do, they buy him and drop the controversial bits. It's not really that hard to understand is it?

Until you remember that his most popular episodes, and those that keep people coming back, are some of the most controversial. Talking about drugs, legalisation, smoking blunts with celebrities, hunting, and frankly being an openly right wing fanatic with some pretty intolerant world views at times are why he has a big audience. Securing both celebrity, tackling those taboo topics, and being a reasonably good host of…

They're not removing 99% of that stuff though, they're taking away only the most extreme bits, and maybe that'll get worse and worse over time, but frankly I think that the business model means he's screwed anyway. Signing for spotify naturally puts him outside of the mainstream conversation (which isn't paywalled) so his cultural relevance is going to slide, erroding his negotiating position. In tandem with that is Spotify's push into podcasts work he'll be just 1 voice amongst many that spotify now has sway over, if it doesn't work Spotify won't care to keep Rogan around since they'll drop that aspect of the business model. Either was, Rogan's negotiating position peaked the day of the deal he signed, and he's probably aware of that. Short of someone like Apple waking up and deciding to do content, no one will offer Rogan that deal again.

Re: Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

#373

Post by yazaddaruvala »

kodah wrote: post #349
JPKab wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My opinion matters to Spotify executives only so much as me being a paying customer of their platform. They are free to make whatever decisions they want, but are obligated by law to make decisions that benefit their investors. If you are a paying Spotify customer, then yes, your opinion matters to the executives. Expressing my opinion on a message board isn't a claim that the executives should listen to me.

> They are free to make whatever decisions they want, but are obligated by law to make decisions that benefit their investors. I'm unaware of any law which requires a business to make money for investors. A business can promise to pay dividends and they can speculate on where their stock can be at a future date, but there is no legal recourse if they lose money.

This might be useful:

https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2019/08/24/stakeholder-gover...

Re: Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

#374

Post by yazaddaruvala »

ethbr0 wrote: post #203
asquabventured wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cancel culture should be renamed cancer culture! It is TOXIC

It should be named what it is, and has always been: anti-free speech. The line is when you take actions designed to prevent someone else from ever speaking, or people hearing their speech, instead of (as is your right) loudly calling them a *ist.

My personal preference is for Spotify to leave Rogan's content on their platform with disclaimers, so I can best decide if/how I listen to it. However, this is not a free speech issue.

"free speech" only makes sense in the context of government regulation (vs individuals/corporations), because governments have a monopoly on violence. As soon as two non-government entities are "regulating each other", it is a matter of mutual free speech. e.g. what about the free speech of Spotify?

Rogan sold his intellectual property, i.e. his speech, including the speech of his guests, to Spotify. Now depending on the contract (I do not know what the exclusivity clauses look like) Rogan might be able to host that content on other platforms, or he might not. Either way, on Spotify's platform, legally the speech is Spotify's not Rogan's nor the guests.

FWIW, if recorded conversations/speech cannot be considered intellectual property, that can be bought and sold, all current media will be impacted as it cannot be run as a business.

Re: Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

#375

Post by yazaddaruvala »

busymom0 wrote: post #331
paxys wrote: post #187

Don't know why Joe Rogan is treated like some free-speech messiah and Spotify the villain. If he was really that adamant on getting his message out there he would have kept his podcast free. Instead he chose a $100M payday (and the associated censorship terms), and here we are.

His podcast is still free - just needs to be viewed via Spotify. He's a hypocrite considering he's commented how he's pro free speech and likes talking to controversial people but then he goes along with it himself.

My personal preference is for Spotify to leave Rogan's content on their platform with disclaimers, so I can best decide if/how I listen to it.

However, this is not a free speech issue. "free speech" only makes sense in the context of government regulation (vs individuals/corporations), because governments have a monopoly on violence. As soon as two non-government entities are "regulating each other", it is a matter of mutual free speech. e.g. what about the free speech of Spotify?

There is no hypocrisy here. Rogan can still be pro-"free speech" given that is in the context of government regulation. Rogan can also still be pro-"anti censorship" in terms of stifling competition (which a lot of people conflate with "free speech"). However, Rogan is running a business and so is Spotify, they made a mutually beneficial deal, no competition was stifled.

Re: Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

#376

Post by busymom0 »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #375
busymom0 wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His podcast is still free - just needs to be viewed via Spotify. He's a hypocrite considering he's commented how he's pro free speech and likes talking to controversial people but then he goes along with it himself.

My personal preference is for Spotify to leave Rogan's content on their platform with disclaimers, so I can best decide if/how I listen to it. However, this is not a free speech issue. "free speech" only makes sense in the context of government regulation (vs individuals/corporations), because governments have a monopoly on violence. As soon as two non-government entities are "regulating each other", it is a matter o…

By your logic, Rosa Parks should have should have just started her own bus company. And how about the government telling "private" businesses to shut down over last year? Are you against the FDA, EPA, FCC, FEC, Net Neutrality too?

I also find it quite interesting how the same people using the "private business" excuse also keep taking a baker to courts for refusing to write something on a cake which is against his beliefs.

As for Joe Rogan, he specifically lied to his viewers (I am saying this as someone who's a fan of his btw). He specifically told viewers last year that he will have full control over his content and Spotify gave him full freedom. He even made bs excuses when a few of his episodes didn't get ported over to Spotify and he claimed it was because of a technical glitch. Somehow the glitches only happened to the "controversial" people shows.

I am surprised he hasn't been class action sued yet considering his false claims and advertisements might have gotten many people to subscribe to Spotify. As a fan of his, this was deeply disappointing and I actually hope he gets sued for lying to his viewers.

Re: Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

#377

Post by yazaddaruvala »

busymom0 wrote: post #376
yazaddaruvala wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal preference is for Spotify to leave Rogan's content on their platform with disclaimers, so I can best decide if/how I listen to it. However, this is not a free speech issue. "free speech" only makes sense in the context of government regulation (vs individuals/corporations), because governments have a monopoly on violence. As soon as two non-government entities are "regulating each other", it is a matter o…

By your logic, Rosa Parks should have should have just started her own bus company. And how about the government telling "private" businesses to shut down over last year? Are you against the FDA, EPA, FCC, FEC, Net Neutrality too? I also find it quite interesting how the same people using the "private business" excuse also keep taking a baker to courts for refusing to write something on a cake which is against his be…

> By your logic, Rosa Parks should have should have just started her own bus company.

This analogy only works if and only if Rosa Parks was getting paid $100 MM to sit in the back of the bus. Rest assured, both of us agree she was in a very, very different situation.

> As for Joe Rogan, he specifically lied to his viewers

Yeah, I agree this is a reasonable assertion. JRE should not have made claims they couldn’t keep.

Re: Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

#378

Post by zero_deg_kevin »

markdown wrote: post #161
cicero wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they appear to have mutually agreed to remove content to conform to the prevailing pressure to restrict public discourse to only politically correct content. While it is certainly their right to make any business arrangement they want, it is distressing that open conversation continues to shrink in our world, whether it be through unilateral cancelation or mutual agreement for the sake of money.

> it is distressing that open conversation continues to shrink in our world Are you sure about that? When has talk about Bigfoot, moon landing conspiracies, the government turning frogs gay, and other such nonsense been welcome in "open conversation"?

I suspect the point of contention here is that people expect their unsubstantiated nonsense to be taken seriously, treated with respect, and accepted by the general public.
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