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Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

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Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#371

Post by supertrope »

analog31 wrote: post #125
jedberg wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Dutch have solved the kids/cargo problem. My friend lives in a suburb of Amsterdam. She has an electric assist bike with a cargo carrier. She uses it to carry kids and cargo, like groceries and such. She used it to carry four kids (her three and one of mine) when we visited. We took the rented car and she beat us there.

In my view, the most striking feature of the Dutch solution is that it's not a type of bike, but a transportation system developed over a span of years within a specific niche of climate, terrain, population density, and so forth. Cargo bikes came after the system was already up and running. Moving any specific component of that system to another niche might help a little, and I'd welcome any progress, but is not a s…

People keep hoping for a technological solution to housing and transportation but the real answer is a big cultural and political shift toward apartments and walkable cities. On second thought that may be a heavier lift than self-driving cars.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#372

Post by rtlfe »

Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #303
stfp wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it doesn't require major investments. It's really minor investments compared to other infrastructure projects. The issue is taking away even a tiny fraction of car space basically triggers some kind of political road rage.

>The issue is taking away even a tiny fraction of car space basically triggers some kind of political road rage. I don't think that's a fair comparison. I live in what many outsiders consider a bike friendly city though in reality it's impractical and unsafe to bike most places. If you're willing to also walk/bus your bike, flout local law on bicycling in pedestrian areas, and bike on major thoroughfares without bike…

> Removing on street parking, when our city already has a parking deficit.

Building free/cheap parking spaces creates a dependency spiral where there's never enough. Counterintuitively, the best way to meet parking demand is to start reducing the number of spaces and charge more for them.

https://mobilitylab.org/2017/07/19/voxmobility-lab-video-hig...

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#373

Post by zip1234 »

kubariet wrote: post #277
garyrichardson wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah. interesting. I generally agree and fully support this method of urban planning, but the results here haven't resulted in more cycling. What you describe is exactly how my suburb is set up. There are several clusters of mixed housing (single family, town houses, apartments) built around a few retail centers (and the retail centers usually have housing built on top of them). There is also both light rail and regula…

My guess is that it's not purely elevation/weather based, but that certainly is a factor for people's comfort. E-bikes can help with the elevation issue at the cost of being more expensive of course. What's the level of bike infrastructure available? It can be surprising how protected people need to feel from cars to use bikes over other modes of transit. I personally only bike in bike lanes and will avoid sharrows a…

E-bikes are magical--riding straight up steep grades without breaking a sweat. They really aren't even that expensive. The tax credit for a single EV car could pay for three decent ebikes in the US.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#374

Post by supertrope »

monkmartinez wrote: post #335
jedberg wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Dutch have solved the kids/cargo problem. My friend lives in a suburb of Amsterdam. She has an electric assist bike with a cargo carrier. She uses it to carry kids and cargo, like groceries and such. She used it to carry four kids (her three and one of mine) when we visited. We took the rented car and she beat us there.

How do I carry my kids and groceries in +100F(38c) or nearly freezing weather?

Stay hydrated. Wear layers. Spend more time indoors. It's not like driving is a sweat free experience at 38C.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#375

Post by uoaei »

alex_g wrote: post #262
moistbar wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, if you act like a car, using the same streets as the cars is quite safe in my experience. I've safely cycled with a cello on my back by simply following the rules most cyclists claim to follow but ignore: stopping at stop lights, signalling when I'm about to turn. You know, looking out for my own safety. EDIT: If following the same rules as everyone else is too much to ask, maybe you should just stay…

If the only way to cycle safely in the city is to pretend you're a full sized motor vehicle, it sounds like you understand how ridiculous it is that the roads are designed for and devoted to cars.

I think this is the wrong framing. The correct framing is, each lawful user of a roadway has equal rights to occupying space on that roadway.

As a frequent city cyclist, I take the lane early and often as is my lawful right, signalling unequivocally my intention and impending action to merge into the traffic lane. Most often I use this right when avoiding someone double-parked in the bike lane, or when turning left at an intersection.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#376

Post by zip1234 »

cabernal wrote: post #102
ab111111111 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What major investment would be required from the city or developers to set up cycling infrastructure? Painting some cycle lanes onto the roads? Marking a few car parking places as bike parking places? That's all that cycling infrastructure really is, so it's super cheap. A lot cheaper than, say, building charging stations for electric cars.

The trick is to get drivers to follow those markings. Where I live I see cars/trucks regularly park on bike lanes with little repercussion. Add to that a hostility between drivers and cyclists sharing the road; this might just be an issue where I live (Toronto) Cycling lane poles would be ideal, but a lot of drivers push back on this since they see it as precious space being taken away from them.

It is space taken away from drivers, but drivers will treat a painted bike line as more space for a car. This is why the only safe bike lanes on a road with cars are ones that have physical protection from cars.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#377

Post by zip1234 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #128
jtdev wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How will good be moved? How will the infirm get around? I admire the cyclist ideal that they are fixing the problems of the world by not driving/owning cars... but it seems like a very superficial, quasi-moralistic solution that's really not likely to have the impact that is desired/needed.

Lower one’s expectations of quality of life and consume less.

Bikes do not decrease quality of life. More exercise, more fresh air, and better health are all quality of life increases.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#378

Post by Daho0n »

Laarlf wrote: post #314
fvdessen wrote: post #307

Cycling is not only good for the environment, but for cities in general. During the last confinement, when car traffic completely stopped, I realised that cars are the single biggest reason why living in the city can be unpleasant. People may not realise it consciously, but when they move out of the city, what they are looking for is a place with not as much cars driving around. Cars destroy cities by making a viciou…

I look at European city centers where cars often times get thrown out now and: they don’t agree. Profits were way down even before COVID. Even if you offer people the option to not use their car, they will avoid it. No form of transportation will ever be as pleasant to use. Cars don’t make cities unpleasant, cities themselves are unpleasant. No matter if cars exist or not. Bikes, pedestrians and cars must be properly…

This reads like an American talking about European cities.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#379

Post by supertrope »

briga wrote: post #189
mchusma wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll note safety of cycling is a big concern of mine, and by far the biggest reason I do not generally bicycle to commute, and only do it for leisure off roads whenever possible. Cycling is roughly 2x as dangerous as driving (1) to the person themselves per mile travelled and motorcycling is 35 times as dangerous (2). Electric bikes are probably somewhere in the middle. I am hoping once we get humans off the road, cy…

I would assume cycling safety increases proportionally with bike infrastructure. Something tells me the people dying on bicycles aren't dying from collisions with other bicyclists. If you have adequate infrastructure bike safety starts to become a marginal concern.

I grew up trained at school to always put on a helmet else I'd end up a vegetable after a bike accident. Not one mention of how American roads are designed for car supremacy at the expense of human safety. A helmet won't do you much good if a texting SUV driver hits you.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#380

Post by karaterobot »

julienb_sea wrote: post #73

The zeitgeist has clearly made their choice. Every comment even mildly questioning the viability of cycling as a replacement for transportation in most contexts is downvoted.

There are some topics I don't even ask good-faith questions about on HN, because the topics are so tribalized that nobody is likely to give a response that doesn't assume malice.
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