Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco • Hacker News Board

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#371

Post by nemo44x » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 11:53 AM UTC

jb775 wrote: post #319

nemo44x wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s because people don’t so much like their party as they have visceral hatred for the other one.

But wouldn't it make logical sense for the general population to consider trying something different? We're talking decades of single party control (left wing liberals), and these cities are rat-pits. I guess that's why it's so powerful that the left currently owns the mass media...they stir up that visceral hatred to the point where people forget about reality.

Republicans don’t even try and compete in major cities anymore. In fact they use them as a foil to convince their suburban and rural constituency from voting for the party that has “New York values”, etc. they literally just insult that part of the country so how could they win?

And why would a Republican do better is a question I’d ask? Their track record across the vast swaths of America they control are full of drug addicts, high rates of welfare, and crumbling towns. It really is the white ghetto. Outside the affluent suburbs the country is more or less not doing any better than the major cities.

Regardless, the Republican argument would need to change to “effective government” from their typical “no government” stance. People do want self sufficiency and they do want to be treated as individuals and not reduced to group identity. But there are certain things republicans would have to change to break through.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#372

Post by rorykoehler » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 12:09 PM UTC

rsj_hn wrote: post #108

chomp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People of San Francisco passed a law to allow any robbery under $1000 That’s just not true at all, come on, you’re intentionally spreading misinformation. It raised the limit to $950 for the felony threshold for simple theft. Robbery is still a felony. “Prop 47 doesn’t cover robberies, theft by the use of force or fear. It doesn’t cover burglaries,” Gascón said. “If you break into a structure with the intent to com…

Gascon isn't the DA, Boudin is (the son of leftwing activists who convicted of felony murder for killing two policemen - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesa_Boudin ). With his parents in prison Boudin was adopted by Bill Ayers, another Weather Underground leader who also made headlines for saying (in a video interview - https://daleyeagerdotcom.wordpress.com/2020/01/15/breaking-v... reminiscent of Hobsbawm) we might…

It's beautiful irony that the most capitalist place on earth has Boudin as DA. I don't have anything against him for hs background or the fact that he is proud of it. None of that precludes him from doing a good job. In fact it could indeed be beneficial because he has awareness of issues from a perspective few do. That said the proof is in the pudding and it is unconscionable that the city that is the engine room for creating new wealth suffers from the problems described so often here. What's going on? It makes no sense from the outside. It just looks like a social version of asset stripping.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#373

Post by pnutjam » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 12:28 PM UTC

tolbish wrote: post #63

pm90 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Studies have consistently shown the homeless in SF are from the city and neighboring regions. It’s not attracting homeless from elsewhere. The homelessness problem is a housing problem, plain and simple. No socialism necessary to explain it.

How long before a recent transplant is considered a local in these studies? Five years? One month?

The one I saw was 6 years.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#374

Post by rorykoehler » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 12:31 PM UTC

ajmurmann wrote: post #142

throwaway6734 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NIMBYism is a scourge

It's puzzling to me that NIMBYism seems so common among people who identify as liberal. It's clearly just another way of kicking away the ladder and is inherently with the stated goals of liberalism. At least neo-liberals seems to have gotten this one 100% correct.

What I notice in Berlin is a conflation between NIMBYism and desire to solve problems with good planning and not just filling in every yard in the city so no apartments get sunlight anymore.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#375

Post by kcartlidge » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 12:42 PM UTC

michtzik wrote: post #363

dcolkitt wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you released every prisoner in America, besides the rapists and murderers, the US would still have a higher incarceration rate than Europe. I'm sure the SF specific numbers would tell a similar story. You can't simply compare European to American incarceration statistics without taking into account that the US is an extremely criminal country for the developed world. And no, this doesn't have to do with unive…

As a counterargument to the claim that Europe is less violent than the United States, especially over a historical period going back to the 18th century: Nazi Germany murdered more people in a single named process than the total number of murders in the United States for the entire 20th century.

There is a case to be made that war is just legalised murder, but nevertheless in these comparisons the context does not normally include war.

And would you really want to? The US is far from innocent with its use of nuclear weapons, fire-bombing Japan (Truman: "there were more people killed by fire-bombs in Tokyo than dropping the atomic bombs"), Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, and so on.

Note that I'm not saying you're wrong about Nazi Germany, just that, the whilst the death tolls may be either swift or cumulative, it remains the case that all countries are guilty on the war front.

So to repeat: the context is criminality not war, where the distinction is the normally accepted delineation of the two.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#376

Post by imtringued » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 12:44 PM UTC

I would like to mention that according to existing residents in San Francisco this is a good thing. They want you to leave.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#377

Post by imtringued » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 12:50 PM UTC

michtzik wrote: post #363

dcolkitt wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you released every prisoner in America, besides the rapists and murderers, the US would still have a higher incarceration rate than Europe. I'm sure the SF specific numbers would tell a similar story. You can't simply compare European to American incarceration statistics without taking into account that the US is an extremely criminal country for the developed world. And no, this doesn't have to do with unive…

As a counterargument to the claim that Europe is less violent than the United States, especially over a historical period going back to the 18th century: Nazi Germany murdered more people in a single named process than the total number of murders in the United States for the entire 20th century.

This is putting the US into a worse spotlight than you think.

If it's possible for a mass murdering nation to become more peaceful than the US then that implies that the US completely failed at dealing with violence. Since you are starting off from a much lower base it should be much easier for your country to take care of the problem.

Edit: As other countries pointed out the US did commit war crimes as well.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#378

Post by imtringued » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 1:00 PM UTC

jswizzy wrote: post #87

systemvoltage wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People of San Francisco passed a law t̶o̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶o̶w̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶ ̶r̶o̶b̶b̶e̶r̶y̶ ̶u̶n̶d̶e̶r̶ ̶$̶1̶0̶0̶0̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶f̶i̶l̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶c̶a̶s̶e̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶c̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶c̶o̶p̶s̶.̶ They also expect safe neighborhoods. You can't have both. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26040812 Liberal policies such as this does not solve the actual problem. Instead of providing food and shelter to the poor, perhaps st…

I wish I believed giving the homeless jobs would fix the problem but I watched my dad who owns a business try and help several local homeless or down on their luck types and more often than not they just take advantage of people then go right back to drugs or worse they have mental health issues and probably will never be able to function in society.

Ask anyone who tried to quit smoking, how hard was it? It's difficult because of chemical dependencies. You need to get the body used to a lower dosage over time and incrementally lower the dosage. That's the only way you can make it work. It's possible thanks to vaping. It would work most likely work with other drugs like heroin.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#379

Post by imtringued » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 1:02 PM UTC

azinman2 wrote: post #189

systemvoltage wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People of San Francisco passed a law t̶o̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶o̶w̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶ ̶r̶o̶b̶b̶e̶r̶y̶ ̶u̶n̶d̶e̶r̶ ̶$̶1̶0̶0̶0̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶f̶i̶l̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶c̶a̶s̶e̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶c̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶c̶o̶p̶s̶.̶ They also expect safe neighborhoods. You can't have both. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26040812 Liberal policies such as this does not solve the actual problem. Instead of providing food and shelter to the poor, perhaps st…

> Instead of providing food and shelter to the poor, perhaps starting an infrastructure program to employ these people and fix the damn roads, they empower the poor to go rampage stores to survive. We spend over a billion a year on the homeless. It’s an intractable problem, and the weather, social services, and accepting (of panhandling) population drives demand to locate here.

Yes it's intractable because having homeless people is considered more desirable than actually solving the underlying problems because it would hurt special interests.

The average SF resident loves having homeless people because of the secondary benefits that homelessness brings.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#380

Post by sn41 » Sun, Mar 07, 2021, 1:12 PM UTC

gligorot wrote: post #365

sn41 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Closeness to the Stanford university ecosystem which promoted tech. Berkeley isn't too far away physically, though it may not be very near ideologically. Talent helps. 2. Matthew Effect: The (talent-)rich (cities) get richer. 3. Weather. I have lived at some point in the midwest. Shovelling snow in a morning storm so that you can get in the car to go to office is not something I'd want to do again. Maybe Denver ha…

Could you clarify more on the ideological differences between Stanford and Berkeley? Also other universities. I had no idea that something like that even exists. Are they (also) different on the political spectrum or in some other area?

People closer to the ground can comment better. But to summarize, tenure decisions in Stanford reputedly take into account whether you are involved in startups etc. Berkeley is more traditionally academic, as far as I understand.

As for the political spectrum, Berkeley is left-liberal. I am not sure about Stanford. It is also somewhat liberal, even though conservative/libertarian think-tanks like the Hoover institution are based on the Stanford campus.