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Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

latimes.com

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Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#51

Post by ghaff »

bpodgursky wrote: post #14
jinushaun wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that plan will backfire. Look at Detroit. Secondly, everyone will draw different conclusions when looking at the same data.

For better or for worse, accurate or inaccurate, there were two lessons pretty universally drawn from Detroit: (1) White flight is very, very bad news, and (2) Heavy unionization makes factories uncompetitive. Especially (2) -- again, I'm not saying whether this is the right or wrong conclusion -- weighs heavily on the states that picked up auto manufacturing that fled Detroit. Obviously there are contrarian takes, b…

I'm not sure factories closing down in the Bay Area is a big issue as there aren't a lot. The bigger issue is upper middle class and upper class people and their taxes leaving. On the other hand, the area generally (if not necessarily just SF proper) has a lot of attractions that Detroit never had. So it's reasonable to assume that housing prices could drop to a more sustainable level. Of course, one implication is that municipalities would probably have to operate on lower budgets than they do today.

In general, SF and Bay Area are not necessarily the same story. Plenty may choose to live in South Bay especially if prices drop but not in the city.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#52

Post by CryptoPunk »

tehjoker wrote: post #25
systemvoltage wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People of San Francisco passed a law t̶o̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶o̶w̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶ ̶r̶o̶b̶b̶e̶r̶y̶ ̶u̶n̶d̶e̶r̶ ̶$̶1̶0̶0̶0̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶f̶i̶l̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶c̶a̶s̶e̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶c̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶c̶o̶p̶s̶.̶ They also expect safe neighborhoods. You can't have both. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26040812 Liberal policies such as this does not solve the actual problem. Instead of providing food and shelter to the poor, perhaps st…

You can actually, but you need to provide enough basic services so that people in desperate situations have free, healthy, and convenient food, housing, medical care, and education.

Yes, San Francisco is lagging cities in Texas in providing social services, which is why its homelesssness/street-disorder/drug-abuse problem is so much worse.

There is a point at which you have to realize/admit that your ideological narrative, and the public sector interests who popularize it, are wrong. The left coast cities, from San Fran to Vancouver, have prioritized decriminalization of drugs, social services, and hands off policing for 'minor' crimes like theft, and have been overtaken by deliquency and squalor as a result.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#53

Post by pm90 »

lettergram wrote: post #26
Moodles wrote: post #6

I'm leaving San Francisco next month also. I just see no reason to continue living here. The weather is nice in California, but the city is so mismanaged it's a joke. The homelessness has been an issue for decades now and local politicians always talk about it, but what do they actually do to help? I genuinely have no clue where the high taxes go. I just find it so ironic that San Francisco is a bastion of liberalism…

Just want to point out, this could be the result of socialist values. Throughout all history from Rome to Soviet Russia to the Bay Area. Giving away free stuff leads to an influx of people to the population center. They wanted or needed a free ride. The population center doesn’t get taxes from those people, so they are a burden on the system. Further exasperating the issue, corruption. There’s always corruption, in a…

Studies have consistently shown the homeless in SF are from the city and neighboring regions. It’s not attracting homeless from elsewhere. The homelessness problem is a housing problem, plain and simple. No socialism necessary to explain it.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#54

Post by birken »

czbond wrote: post #34
birken wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What law are you referring to? Prop 47? There is no law which allows robberies.

'Allow' and 'not enforce for motivated individuals' are very close together.

The laws are enforced.

I haven't seen any conclusive evidence that shows Prop 47 has led to higher crime rates. In fact there are many studies which show there isn't any, while at the same time the state is saving tons of money not incarcerating non-violent offenders.

I haven't seen any conclusive evidence that Chesa Boudin has led to higher crime rates, though I'm not sure how controlled the comparison is of pandemic-city levels vs normal crime levels.

Crime happened before prop 47, crime happened after prop 47. Crime happened before Chesa was elected DA, crime happened after he was elected DA.

I wish there were no crime, but to point out an example of one crime being committed and then jumping to broad conclusions, while also misrepresenting the supposed rationale for the increase in crime, it's a bit of a red flag for me.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#55

Post by chrisseaton »

taylorlapeyre wrote: post #41

I may as well represent a different perspective here. I am not leaving San Francisco. It's beautiful here. I'm excited to see it get weirder. I will always choose to live somewhere that is exciting over somewhere that will be the same forever. Everything about San Francisco has always been "temporary." This city is boom/bust, constantly changing. It's interesting, having a front-row seat to the ways that people and c…

> I'm excited to see it get weirder ... personally, I like [it]

I think the problem is that the 'weirdness' is more like 'human suffering'. People treat it like a charming part of the experience for their benefit... but like it's real people suffering.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#57

Post by excerionsforte »

Area is priced highly, jobs can be done from anywhere else in the world, so it is natural regardless of politics and all the other crap that people migrate to cheaper areas where they feel they can live out of. The SF/SV bubble is leaking out and pressure is being let out to the rest of the world mostly US. Obviously, SF isn't the only high priced area in the world that is leaking out.

With lowered rent prices, this should help alleviate economics on lower paid people. Who's to say these areas won't go sky high again though.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#58

Post by zeroonetwothree »

cobraetor wrote: post #4
sriram_sun wrote: post #3

Anecdata - San Diego prices are going way up - folks moving from Bay Area.

Texas too. https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2018/11/02/s...

If you’ve lived in both you’d know there’s not much to worry about lol

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#59

Post by pm90 »

taylorlapeyre wrote: post #41

I may as well represent a different perspective here. I am not leaving San Francisco. It's beautiful here. I'm excited to see it get weirder. I will always choose to live somewhere that is exciting over somewhere that will be the same forever. Everything about San Francisco has always been "temporary." This city is boom/bust, constantly changing. It's interesting, having a front-row seat to the ways that people and c…

I’ve not lived here for too long but I agree with your sentiment. It’s a wonderful city and I’ve met wonderful people and have had great experiences so far. No city is perfect and to the contrary of what most people complain about, I am happy that this city has a big homeless budget and that my tax dollars are being used to provide them some kind of relief, that the city Government is not prosecuting an already unfortunate class of people for doing exactly what any one of us put in such terrible circumstances would be coerced into doing.

Re: Californians aren’t leaving the state en masse but are leaving San Francisco

#60

Post by Xcelerate »

We left the Bay Area to be closer to family. It was going to happen at some point, but the pandemic just accelerated the move. The Bay Area is still my favorite place though, so ironically I’m able to save up faster to buy a house there (for retirement) by not living there currently, assuming remote incomes don’t drop drastically after the pandemic.

Anecdotally, at our apartment complex in Asheville, there are three cars with California license plates right next to mine, so at least some people had the same idea as us with regard to where to move.

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