Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19 • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#371

Post by kevstev » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:14 PM UTC

vmception wrote: post #290

Mirioron wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd happily trade places with one of my childless coworkers right about now. Yes, some things come with downsides. I'm sure a lot of people would also want to trade places with you during the happy times you have with your kids. But you can't usually get the benefits without the downsides.

Yeah, I have the most ideal bachelor penthouse and terrace, living alone during phase I lockdown, but that didn't feel ideal after 2.5 months either. I'm aware of the high chance of having a roommate/partner/children you begin to resent, and that was a useful rationalization given what nurses and police and articles were telling me. But that 5% (or maybe much greater) chance of a fulfilling live-in companion was pret…

The single guys at work are actually the most eager to go back in. I think the loneliness and monotony gets to you after awhile, and most live in kind of dreary small bachelor pad type apartments. I am fortunate to have a wife and a dog and have a bit of outdoor space while also being more or less on a park with friendly neighbors- the restaurant down the street from me opened a take out window with dog treats and the minute or two of daily small talk accompanying my pup begging for a treat just went miles towards satisfying my socialization need. Its pretty much the pandemic on easy mode, and there have been moments where it has not been so easy.

Tbh my wife and I have gotten a lot closer through all of this and our relationship has never been better. But obviously YMMV on that and it helps that our jobs have been stable and both our companies are doing well during this.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#372

Post by woah » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:15 PM UTC

johnjj257 wrote: post #251

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #20

This reminds me of local retirees who are resentful that their taxes are paying for public schools. They seem to have forgotten that someone paid for them to attend school. Regarding parental time off, it's conceivable that their own parents never had that support. Maternal/parental leave is taking decades to roll out - perhaps as long as it took for public schooling to become universally available.

The problem with this analogy is that everyone uses the school system at some point in their life, but not everyone is a parent at some point.

Whether or not you agree that society should support children, your criticism of the analogy makes no sense.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#373

Post by technotarek » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:15 PM UTC

There is nothing unique about tech in this regard. Not saying it shouldn’t be on HN, but it’s a weird spin that adds nothing to the important and very real points of the article otherwise.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#374

Post by nicbou » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:15 PM UTC

jdm2212 wrote: post #339

nicbou wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then is it cool if I skip a few meetings to volunteer to help the homeless? We already heavily subsidise child-rearing through taxes and other benefits. As I said elsewhere, there are mechanisms for supporting parents already. If you tried to let any other charitable endeavour take over your work schedule, you wouldn't expect your compensation to remain unaffected. I'm not resentful at parents. It just seems complete…

> Then is it cool if I skip a few meetings to volunteer to help the homeless? That's the thing -- you won't actually go volunteer with the homeless. (Or at least, 99% of us wouldn't.) But parents actually have to change those diapers. If there's a little kid running around in the background of that Zoom call, someone is doing a lot of hard work to keep the kid alive. And unlike volunteering at the homeless shelter, t…

> you won't actually go volunteer with the homeless

This was in response to the parent post:

> an essential service that some people perform to ensure that society as we know it can continue to exist

If this was the reason why parents get a free pass, people who provide essential services would also get to do it on their employer's dime, at the expense of their colleagues.

My point across this entire comments section is that this privilege is arbitrary. A lot of people do hard work for all sorts of important reasons, but when they miss work, it gets mentioned in their performance review.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#375

Post by treeman79 » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:15 PM UTC

nazgulsenpai wrote: post #188

treeman79 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cat in question https://ibb.co/ZVfjzB3

Hey, that's pretty good!

Thanks!

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#376

Post by johnjj257 » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:16 PM UTC

woah wrote: post #372

johnjj257 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this analogy is that everyone uses the school system at some point in their life, but not everyone is a parent at some point.

Whether or not you agree that society should support children, your criticism of the analogy makes no sense.

How so? The typo? Everyone uses the school so everyone should not complain. Everyone is not a parent so the analogy breaks down.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#377

Post by rdtwo » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:16 PM UTC

MacsHeadroom wrote: post #280

loosescrews wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in the US, the pandemic has changed everyone's life created stress for everyone. These policies seem to indicate that non-parents don't have an additional burden worth recognizing. It is easy to see it this way too as most of the managers and executives at big tech companies are parents. For young non-parent tech workers, this may be the first time that they have to figure out how to feed themselves during t…

As a childless person who cooks fine, the hardest part of this pandemic has been the mental toll of the sudden loss of everything that gives my life meaning- nights out with friends, concerts, festivals, etc. I don't have the fortune of getting a sense of meaning from being a parent. Go ahead and tell me how the things I get meaning from pale in comparison to being a parent and how I just need to suck it up. Does tha…

Sometimes it’s meaning but most of the time it’s like having a Second except job running a gas station except your night shift employees quit so you gotta work full time at both. If you want to know what it’s like start a side hustle and put another 8hrs in during the week and 14 on the weekends, you’ll probably get the same amount of meaning out of it - no seriously. When you are ready to have kids quit one of your jobs and you won’t skip a beat

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#378

Post by phatfish » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:16 PM UTC

nicbou wrote: post #268

ethanwillis wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They get the perk of more flexibility because they're providing a service to society, raising children for the next generation. You don't get this perk because you didn't have children. Your contribution is more work because you have more time to do it.

This argument is made again and again in this thread, and it never got addressed. 1. There are already functional mechanisms for contribution. A single, childless person is already contributing more through their taxes. The government already heavily subsidises child-rearing. 2. Child-rearing is given an arbitrary pass that other equally charitable actions wouldn't get. A single, childless person couldn't let his com…

1. I have no figures on subsidies for child-rearing, but "heavily subsidises" seems very unlikely in most places, maybe Scandinavia can make that claim. I suspect any help provided by the government is more than wiped out by lost income from one parent staying at home or working part time for ~5 years (or more with multiple children). Or nursery costs should both parents want to work as soon as possible.

2. Donating to Doctors Without Borders is just enabling someone else to do a good deed, the donator has zero responsibility. Parents are legally required to look after a child for 16 (i think, in most countries) years.

3. The world population won't keep growing, fertility rates are only above 3 in Africa. Other "developing" countries are on course for the population to stabilise, western developed countries will see population dropping. Google tells me 2064 for current projected population peak.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#379

Post by WindyLakeReturn » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:16 PM UTC

codemac wrote: post #5

Personally, I struggle with these feelings as well. It seems nuts that someone working 50%+ less than someone else is going to keep all the same equity, vacation, and salary. Then again it seems nuts that they don't. All employees who had children or family members to care for before or after COVID get none of the same support. I don't think backpay is coming for those who were forced to take leave or even quit their…

>It's hard to see how far some companies are willing to go for parents today, when I see how little we do for others.

I think much of my own negative emotion about unequal treatment in many sectors of life, not just child care, stems from this. Almost everyone has special unique difficulties they have to deal with that makes their lives harder. By chance, my set are some that are mostly not recognized by others. It isn't that I want to tell others to grin and bear their problems in life because I don't care. It is instead that grinning and bearing has been the only option for me no matter my struggles that I begin to question why it wouldn't work for others as well.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#380

Post by TedDoesntTalk » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:17 PM UTC

jbay808 wrote: post #318

rootusrootus wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignoring the obvious downsides for a moment, I'd happily trade places with one of my childless coworkers right about now. This morning I went up and down the stairs at least ten times while trying to get my 7- and 9-year old kids successfully established in their first remote learning session, simultaneously participating in two consecutive Zoom meetings with coworkers, and figuring out how to solve a nagging issue i…

(Edited to clarify my intended meaning) > I'd happily trade places with one of my childless coworkers right about now. For those childless co-workers that wish they could accept the other end of this deal, this phrase is both common and quite painful to hear. Please consider not using it unless you really mean it, which you don't, as you actually wouldn't give up your kids for anything.

“Trade places with” is meant figuratively here, not literally.