After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract • Hacker News Board

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#371

Post by ChristianBundy » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 5:53 PM UTC

newman8r wrote: post #260

ChristianBundy wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But to expect that a _federal agency_ will be denied service from a private entity, especially for essentially political reasons, is lunacy. It really isn't. Private institutions are under no obligation to collaborate with public agencies unless explicitly required by the Defense Production Act[0]. Please remember that the government is meant to serve us, not the other way around. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki…

I don't think OP meant it's lunacy because of any legal obligations private companies have to a federal organization, but rather due to the message it would send to current and future customers.

> the message it would send to current and future customers

What exactly is that message? Maybe:

"If you make your money by separating families, putting kids in cages, and deporting asylum-seekers to places where they're in danger, then we don't want your money."

Do you see anything wrong with that message?

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#372

Post by gruez » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 5:53 PM UTC

brabel wrote: post #170

jobeirne wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But to expect that a _federal agency_ will be denied service from a private entity, especially for essentially political reasons, is lunacy. Um, think you've got this backwards. Private entities shouldn't have to take on anyone they don't want as customers (for whatever reason - do you have to justify who you do or don't want in your livingroom?), but publicly-funded institutions shouldn't be able to deny service o…

I am strongly against a private business being able to refuse service to a person/organization on political grounds, even when the "victim" may seem to be performing evil actions, as long as it is not breaking any laws. One should not discriminate on the basis of race, political orientation, gender, origin or religion. Refusing service is clearly a form of discrimination. When you aim that towards your own Government…

>One should not discriminate on the basis of race, political orientation, gender, origin or religion. Refusing service is clearly a form of discrimination

It looks like you're trying to imply that discriminating based on political orientation is as bad as as discriminating based on race, gender, origin or religion, but that's wrong. At least when it comes to the law, political orientation isn't a protected class. Race, gender, origin or religion are.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#373

Post by adwn » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 5:55 PM UTC

Miner49er wrote: post #303

brabel wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am strongly against a private business being able to refuse service to a person/organization on political grounds, even when the "victim" may seem to be performing evil actions, as long as it is not breaking any laws. One should not discriminate on the basis of race, political orientation, gender, origin or religion. Refusing service is clearly a form of discrimination. When you aim that towards your own Government…

This goes way too far in limiting freedom IMO. It makes sense to not let people discriminate on things that are immutable (like skin color), but it's crazy to not let discrimination happen on things that are a choice. Just like I can decide not to let people not wearing shoes or shirts into my business, why shouldn't I be able to deny entry to a neo-Nazi? What if I'm losing black customers because I have racists regu…

> [...] but it's crazy to not let discrimination happen on things that are a choice.

Religion is a choice. Does that mean that you're fine with discrimination based on one's religion?

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#374

Post by phoe-krk » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 5:55 PM UTC

polk wrote: post #346

phoe-krk wrote: post #12

Doing cheap PR moves like blacking out logos or posting Twitter "support" posts from CEO accounts or announcing the end of default branches named "master" is, as I said, cheap. The real issue is dealing with the elephants in the room, such as the aforementioned ICE contract of GitHub. It is about time that corporations, with GitHub here as an example, noticed that backing this or that or another minority or "trying"…

Actual systemic progress happens through legislative changes. Social pressure is used by the public to show which issues they care about, and what politicians should be working on. The protest are one strong signal here. Support by major companies, while admittedly less effective, is another signal that helps. Claiming that it's useless is false and claiming it's cheap is ignorant - the OP clearly demonstrates that a…

To quote myself from a different comment, I did not mean to imply that the visibility of these issues hasn't changed; it's quite obvious that these issues are much closer to the surface of everyday discourse than they were earlier.

The visibility alone does nil, though, when it comes to everyday practical effects. The mere fact that this issue is visible did not change the death counts. Death statistics during police interventions can be considered one such standard. It's a good first step that needs to be followed by further steps.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#375

Post by alexandercrohde » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 5:55 PM UTC

mchanson wrote: post #31

johncena33 wrote: post #2

I guess this is the reason lot of corporates try to stay out of politics. Because once you set a precedence then people will use that as to push their own political agendas. I personally don't like the slippery slope argument since it's very lazy and justifies inaction in many cases. But at the same time when I see news like this, I just wonder how long it will take two different subgroups trying push their own confl…

We are going through a very strange and extreme period in US History. Corporations are a huge part of the political landscape. Of course workers who are powerful will demand things of their workplaces. All corporations are political. By accepting the ICE contract previously it was political. Now by reversing they would be changing sides. They were already in the political fray.

>> All corporations are political

Almost no corporations are overtly political in who they service.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#376

Post by tekromancr » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

ancorevard wrote: post #45

mchanson wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are going through a very strange and extreme period in US History. Corporations are a huge part of the political landscape. Of course workers who are powerful will demand things of their workplaces. All corporations are political. By accepting the ICE contract previously it was political. Now by reversing they would be changing sides. They were already in the political fray.

"By accepting the ICE contract previously it was political." Just a reminder that government entities like ICE are executing the current laws of the land.

Just a reminder that choosing to obey and assist in the execution of unjust laws is a political act.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#377

Post by rhacker » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

Fellshard wrote: post #182

joshuamorton wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lot's of people seem to think so. Masterpiece Cake shop was a supreme court decision around, essentially, that question, that upheld the right for the private entity to discriminate. So yes I think everyone would agree you have some responsibility (otherwise no one would care about the outcome of the case, why request the right to discriminate if you don't feel that you have any responsibility for the resulting acts?…

It was more specific than that: a cake shop participates directly in the creative effort with the client in the way a software service provider does not.

If the client is large enough, it does. Same as with a cake shop. Someone buying a slice of cake doesn't participate as someone asking for the design of a cake at a much higher cost.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#378

Post by cmdshiftf4 » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

salmon30salmon wrote: post #218

joshuamorton wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, Microsoft is influencing policy at ICE by refusing to provide them facial recognition software, which prevents them from having facial recognition software. In general, if the idea is that a tool makes you more efficient/effective, denying that tool does the opposite. Making ICE less effective seems laudable, so why not throw roadblocks, even small ones, in the way?

Because ICE as an organization isn't purely bad, nor is it purely good. As it is made up of people, there are good and bad. ICE also fights sex trafficking, which to me is akin to modern day slavery. I want ICE to have every tool at their disposal to fight sex trafficking. If we stop ICE from using these tools, are you saying that sex trafficking victims are less worthy of help than detained immigrants? How do you dr…

>which to me is akin to modern day slavery

There's 3 times more slaves today than during the period of the transatlantic slave trade. Estimated to be 40m people, 10m of which are children, mainly in Africa and Asia.[0]

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/25/modern-slavery-...

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#379

Post by umvi » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

karpierz wrote: post #369

umvi wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I disagree. I have more of a "live and let live" or "golden rule" type philosophy. I wouldn't want someone denying me service because they disagree with my beliefs (and by extension, actions), so I don't deny service to people who have beliefs (and by extension, actions) I disagree with.

Would you sell a man a gun if they told you: "hey, if you sell this to me, I'm going to go shoot that black kid outside", and then showed you a few videos of them doing this before?

Well in this case since they showed me video evidence of murder, I would call the police (assuming I don't live in a CHAZ zone).

This is bogus though. Will Home Depot allow me to buy some rope if I declare to a random employee that I plan on using it to do a lynching on my local colored neighbors? Yes, they will. Does that make Home Depot an immoral organization? Nope.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#380

Post by ThA0x2 » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

Just wait till the election is over and Trump is out. All this virtue signaling will stop because their preferred party is in power, and by definition everything that party does is virtuous.

Even if Biden continues the exact same enforcement with ICE, no one will care.