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Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

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Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#371
post #63

Youtube is in a tough spot. They will be blamed: - if they don't take down speech some consider hateful - if they take down speech some do not consider hateful 共匪 is seen as an insult by a group, but others do not. If Youtube bans nothing, then hate speech thrives and they get bad PR. If Youtube bans anything anyone flags as hate speech, then they become de facto as censorship agents for foreign powers. Anything crit…

The solution is to realize "hate speech" is mostly subjective and revert back to the clear rules that we had last decade before the current political climate of gratuitous outrage.

What were those clear rules we apparently abandoned for no reason?

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#373
post #235

I think a more fundamental problem is a single private company having a near-monopoly on various public communication channels, and having financial interests in various global dictatorships. The Founding Fathers could not have predicted this. Google's "We're a private company" get-out-jail-free card cannot continue to apply.

google search is a utility class service at this point, a tier below tap water and electricity. the world would be an objectively worse place without it for billions of people. with great power comes great responsibility is how the saying goes, but i can see them fighting tooth and nail to not be labeled as such. same for facebook and others like them.

You're putting the cart before the horse. Google and Facebook are utilities but the Internet service you need to access them isn't. Seems a bit ridiculous, no?

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#374
post #178
post #63

Youtube is in a tough spot. They will be blamed: - if they don't take down speech some consider hateful - if they take down speech some do not consider hateful 共匪 is seen as an insult by a group, but others do not. If Youtube bans nothing, then hate speech thrives and they get bad PR. If Youtube bans anything anyone flags as hate speech, then they become de facto as censorship agents for foreign powers. Anything crit…

The words “communist bandit” are not “hate speech”. This is ridiculous. How infantilised have we become these days?

While I agree there are over-sensitive people in our society, I'm not sure you can reliably recognise hate speech in translation.

I mean, I know a word that Google Translate defines as "a Jewish person" - do you think you can tell me if it's offensive or not based on that?

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#375

I think a more fundamental problem is a single private company having a near-monopoly on various public communication channels, and having financial interests in various global dictatorships. The Founding Fathers could not have predicted this. Google's "We're a private company" get-out-jail-free card cannot continue to apply.

> a single private company having a near-monopoly on various public communication channels > The Founding Fathers could not have predicted this. Financial, political, religious entities controlling newspapers and book publishers is a problem known (and well documented) across thousands of years. Same for near-monopolies of means of transportation, materials, water, and other.

None of those combined instantaneous planet-wide distribution of spoken word, produced by anyone, shoveled to everyone, individually based on what they would be most likely to want to hear.

If founding fathers had netflix this wouldn’t even make to a black mirror episode of their time.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you justify being a citizen of your country? (not sure what country that is, but most of them have done bad things in the past). It's possible to be a part of a large organization and not agree with its every action.

I have much less mobility as a US citizen to move to another country than I have as a software engineer. Almost any Google employee could have an offer somewhere else within 3 weeks of starting their search.

As a US citizen you are entitled to so many things that most people out there could only dream of.

That's not the point though. Google is so large that it's just weird to talk about the morality of its employees in the context of the company's decisions.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#377
post #172

I think a more fundamental problem is a single private company having a near-monopoly on various public communication channels, and having financial interests in various global dictatorships. The Founding Fathers could not have predicted this. Google's "We're a private company" get-out-jail-free card cannot continue to apply.

We have loads of communication channel alternatives. People freely choose google and should be allowed to continue freely choosing whatever platform they please. The idea that some governing body can better choose my communication platform for my personal needs than I can for myself doesn't seem logical from my point of view.

What's the equivalent competiting content delivery system to YouTube?

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#378

I think a more fundamental problem is a single private company having a near-monopoly on various public communication channels, and having financial interests in various global dictatorships. The Founding Fathers could not have predicted this. Google's "We're a private company" get-out-jail-free card cannot continue to apply.

>>The Founding Fathers could not have predicted this.>>

Sure they could. They had the East India Tea Company.

I'm not a legal expert but it seems like the fundamentals are pretty simple and timeless. If they have a monopoly, then their private get-out-jail-free card no longer applies.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#379
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have loads of communication channel alternatives. People freely choose google and should be allowed to continue freely choosing whatever platform they please. The idea that some governing body can better choose my communication platform for my personal needs than I can for myself doesn't seem logical from my point of view.

Ah yes, the idea that profit driven management is a better juror of freedom than our democratic society. Whatever they decide, they owe you no explanation or recourse. After all, these people are 'accountable' to wall street. To them 2008 and Boeing 737 were an unforceable turn of fortune, and they should bear no harm from it.

Whatever the government decides, they rarely, if ever, provide an explanation or recourse either: the Patriot Act, Ahmad Arbury, TBTF, the assassination of Awlaki, snooping on Americans, Operation Fast and the Furious, the Pentagon's missing billions, Epstein's death, etc.

I'm as pro-democracy as they come, but the belief that the government is somehow (and always) more accountable than companies strains credulity. Companies are accountable to Wall Street, which implies they're accountable to their consumers too. Shake Shack did not have to return the funds they received recently, but they did, because of media attention.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#380
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hacker news and dang in particular has a very good track record of even handed and well thought of moderation. They have definitely earned benefit of the doubt from me. Let's wait a little before bringing the torches.

I would think that having more transparency (eg: moderation/removal log) is much more appropriate than "he looks good to me". I've already seen a few times where content demeaning YC companies mysteriously got disappeared... and then summarily blamed on automated removal. Who's right? No clue. But being able to see that log as it happens would be a significant good faith action.

This leads to am interesting security question: how to achieve real transparency?

I mean HN could publish a ranking algorithm and claim that that is what they use. But then we still wouldn't know

(1) if that is really what's running in the background,

(2) if that is really receiving user inputs that lead to the observed outcome.

I'm guessing for most people here the programming assignment "create a fake log including these real inputs so that this story is suddenly dropped according to the ranking algorithm" isn't that hard.

I think that in the end, you end up trusting something. (Eg. Is the log fake or real?) IF that is so, you might as well design the system around a predetermined root of trust... here, the moderators.

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