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Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

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Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#371

Post by AdrianB1 »

paganel wrote: post #307
missosoup wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think on average the difference between a high school student from Russia and US is negligible I went to high school in Russia and then moved to Australia. The difference was immense. It felt like i just dropped 2 year levels. Even the accelerated programs were hopelessly behind the regular curriculum for my age group in Russia. AU/US high school students can't possibly compete against RU or CN high school studen…

> One of the major factors is this weird anti-intellectualism culture that just doesn't exist in Russia. It was the same thing in Romania, at least in the '90s, when I went to school/high-school. It was always strange to me seeing all those American movies of the "nerds"/geeks getting persecuted by the "cool" kids, it certainly didn't happen to kids in my school and I'm pretty sure it generally didn't happen to kids…

In Romania in high school (Sf. Sava) being good at math and physics made you automatically very popular, everyone wanted to sit near you whenever you had written exams :) In any case, smart people were appreciated, there were no "nerds".

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#372

Post by dreen »

gambiting wrote: post #313
missosoup wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think on average the difference between a high school student from Russia and US is negligible I went to high school in Russia and then moved to Australia. The difference was immense. It felt like i just dropped 2 year levels. Even the accelerated programs were hopelessly behind the regular curriculum for my age group in Russia. AU/US high school students can't possibly compete against RU or CN high school studen…

Not the same, but I went from the Polish education system to a British university, and it also felt like it was a massive downgrade. What really surprised me was the core principle at British unversities - "don't assume prior knowledge of anything". It basically meant that on a CS course, they teach you basic level maths, basic programming skills, you spend the entire 1st year of university learning what we learnt in…

I also moved from the Polish to British system and I do agree with your first point, but not really with the second one. I really welcomed the ability to focus more (but not only) on things I was more into.

A major difference for me was the approach to grading. In Poland, you might attempt to pass an exam until you do pass it. In Britain, you take an exam and you either pass or not. You can even pass the year if you fail an entire subject. Universities specifically want a certain % of people passing so they do doctor the numbers.

The most important thing is the end result. And here, I believe, the UK universities are better: they actually give you way more practical skills, while Polish unis give you more knowledge. If you want to be a scientist you might prefer #2, but for having a good job #1 is way better.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#373

Post by zuminator »

raarts wrote: post #215
nostromo wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just happened in Seattle. The program for gifted students was canceled after being found to be inequitable.

Apparently NY is doing the same: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/27/nyregion/gifted-programs-...

FYI,New York isn't doing the same. The mayor's task panel issued recommendations last year, but he has yet to implement any. https://chalkbeat.org/posts/ny/2020/02/05/turning-up-the-pre...

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#374

Post by concerned_user »

ssivark wrote: post #96
smohare wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or perhaps the “hardcore” texts are just poorly written?

Au contraire, they’re some of the best textbooks I’ve had the fortune of reading! :-) They make the student work (participate actively in your own education), which I’ve noticed that American textbooks (at least modern high school & college textbooks) seem loath to do. I don’t know why — you don’t develop what you don’t exercise!

If you open any soviet textbook you will see the following text on title page: (loosely translated) "Supplementary reading for students of xx specialties higher education" it can school level or college level. But in essence those books are an addition to the course which is mainly delivered by lectures. You can study by yourself but it will be hard and you will need extra material to replace lectures.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#375

Post by salty_biscuits »

Dahoon wrote: post #368
stdbrouw wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What really surprised me was the core principle at British unversities - "don't assume prior knowledge of anything". The rationale is that you want to give 18 year olds the opportunity to pick a field of study that they're excited about now rather than forcing them to choose something based on what kind of education their parents thought proper for them six years ago. If a single "intro to programming" course and a…

That is just an excuse. You could easily take an "intro to programming" before trying to get into the school. All it does is lower the bar of entry and you can only teach so much in the time given so it will ultimately take time away in the other end.

What's wrong with a low bar to tertiary education? It lets disadvantaged kids get in and catch up. As long as the standards are high by the end everything is fine right?

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#376

Post by LudwigNagasena »

winter_blue wrote: post #213
c-smile wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First 3 years all students of all Sciences (Math included) and all Engineering specialties were getting the same (mandatory) set of courses. Only rest 2 or 3 years were variable. As of Canadian Universities. UBC in particular. Anecdotical evidence, but still. Friend of mine, owner of small factory here in Vancouver, asked me once to assemble him software department specifically from Eastern Europe people. On question…

> asked me once to assemble him software department specifically from Eastern Europe people I hope your friend realizes that this is clear-cut racial/ethnicity-based discrimination . It's a violation of the Canadian Human Rights Act, see: https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/rights-w...

I thought in the West the preferred term is “affirmative action.”

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#377

Post by Dahoon »

geomark wrote: post #32

Here is an interesting paper [1](PDF) by a Russian mathematician who has taught mathematics in Russia, USA and Brazil. He compares the "very successful usage of word problems in Russia and contradictory, inefficient and often immature treatment of word problems in USA." [1] http://toomandre.com/travel/sweden05/WP-SWEDEN-NEW.pdf

I wish this was at the top. It would make the discussion here more interesting.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#378

Post by michaelt »

missosoup wrote: post #268
lsh123 wrote: post #80

Disclaimer: I graduated from one of the top math high schools in Moscow in early 90s, I have MS in Math from Moscow State University, and a half finished PhD from the same place. I think on average the difference between a high school student from Russia and US is negligible. Either country doesn’t really require much to finish school and many kids just do the tests without understanding what is going on. What separa…

> I think on average the difference between a high school student from Russia and US is negligible I went to high school in Russia and then moved to Australia. The difference was immense. It felt like i just dropped 2 year levels. Even the accelerated programs were hopelessly behind the regular curriculum for my age group in Russia. AU/US high school students can't possibly compete against RU or CN high school studen…

> AU/US high school students can't possibly compete against RU or CN high school students.

Can anyone comment on how this translates into results in adulthood, in the current age?

Do we see more discoveries in fundamental science, more inventions, better medical care, or better-run businesses?

As I don't speak Russian or Chinese, I don't really have a fair view and it would be easy for me to mistakenly under-estimate what the graduates of these schools get up to.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#379

Post by playing_colours »

totorovirus wrote: post #152

In my high school year in international school(in germany) I've seen many students from diverse backgrounds. I could see balanced number of students taught from their own origin: US, asian or international school itself. One thing I remember until now is that students from US kept using the phrase 'plug-it-in' whenever they substitute values into quadratic formula. Overusing that term made me laugh about their attitu…

A shiny example of racism caused by wrong interpretation and ignorance.
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