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Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

nytimes.com

371–380 of 405 posts

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#371
post #198
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 If the Republicans are serious about an economic recovery and want startups to flourish, then universal healthcare is a cornerstone of such an effort. I know of other people too who are afraid of leaving their (big-company) positions because they have a wife + young kids, and lack of health insurance terrifies them.

What could possibly have given you the idea that the Republicans want an economic recovery?

Well, eventually. Just not under Obama. Maybe if they wait a few years?

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#372
post #323

Countries like India, Malaysia are starting to see a boom in Medical Tourism. It costs approximately $4500 for a open heart surgery at the best hospitals compared to $15-$20K in the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_tourism

Going to a dentist on your holiday would be a casual example.

That's exactly what I did when I went to El Salvador last year. It cost me $30 for a routine cleaning as opposed to $150 in the US.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#373

I find it absolutely impossible to believe that her coverage was denied for the reasons she described - I have been approved for and paid for my own insurance for years (including my family's insurance) with medical issues far more serious than those. I concede that the system is totally messed up and the new health care bill makes it even worse. Employers shouldn't be required to provide health benefits - eliminate…

Funny. I have plenty of family and friends in the medical field (doctors, nurses, and hospital administrators), and I have yet to find one who believes the health care bill is a bad idea. In fact, most of them agree that its long overdue. You know what they love most about the bill? It would prevent insurers from dropping coverage. Insurer-instigated billing disputes are the biggest obstacles to health service provid…

It doesn't surprise me that your friends and family differ in opinion (I have been surprised to not find one in my circle that supports the bill).

That said, one family member in particular is a nurse practicioner at a major trauma center. Her primary concern is not the billing disputes as much as the actual quality of care. She feels that her hospital is already inundated with somewhat reckless medicaid requests. She believes that 60% of medicaid patients at her hospital seek medical care that they don't need (e.g., person has a basic headache that some rest or an aspirin would surely cure but instead they actually seek professional medical attention). If that visit were to come at a slightly greater cost, there is no way that person would go to an emergency room for a headache.

It sounds like a dramatic example but she says crazy incidents like this happens every single day, w/o fail. So much so that they track and keep a monthly log that helps them measure their performance. As such, the hospital's resources are strained and their ability to treat seriously ill or injured patients is somewhat compromised. So I think the concern on her part is that the new health care bill actually exacerbates this problem.

I understand that selling across state lines could violate states rights. At the same time, it's too bad that many (myself included) wouldn't trust the fed to be in charge of interstate oversight. In reality, it might be better to have one consolidated standard of mandates but I just can't imagine fed efficiently and accurately providing that type of oversight.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#374
the problem in this country is that not enough people are paying for their own health care or insurance.

Some people are getting medicare others are getting medicaid, others have benefits from the VA or a government job. Others get it from unions or employers. Only the people who are responsible for paying their own bills truly understand the state of our health care industry.

Because of that it is always someone else's problem and no one really minds paying 48k for 2 nights of saline drip in the hospital when the only cost to them is the 500.00 deductible. The hospital collecting the 48k certainly does not want that to change neither do any of the other predators in that food chain.

Put a high tax on employer sponsored insurance plans so that all employers stop offering it as a benefit. Then we will see real reform.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#375
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the difference between a family and a company, its the size of the group. Thus the costs for a company with 10,000 people is far different than a company with 10. Also, if you have a group of 2,5,10 or 20, the insurance company has an easier time denying you because if you get pissed and drop them, its not a big loss for them. In contrast, if you deny the right person at a 10,000 person company, they lose a…

Actually, has anyone tried banding a group of startups together until they have several thousand employees, then buy insurance as a bloc? Another idea I've kicked around: Create a sort-of incubator where, on paper, all of the startup founders and employees are employees of the incubator group. Then the incubator can handle the whole mess of both insurance and income taxes. (Bonus: Since the "incubator" now has a ton…

I've spent some time thinking about different startup ideas / permutations to address exactly this solution. In my research, I've found attempts at both methods you describe above, in various forms and various states, with widely varying degrees of success, but most have ended in failure. The "successes" tend to offer some limited choice in plans, but the rates certainly aren't great and the deductibles are still pretty high -- mostly it's a fallback safety net for serious emergencies.

I think a startup that can help tackle this issue would create tremendous value in the payor / consumer market, but the field is extraordinarly complicated and requires a very rare multi-disciplinary background in individual state law (CA's system alone is very different from, say, MA's bc CA is HMO-based and MA has a public option), behavioral economics, gov't regulation, insurance underwriting methods, insurance administrative practices. Oh, and if it's a tech startup, the team would obviously need web dev / product skills as well.

The problem is, developing a basic mastery of all these subjects takes a lot of time -- reading, thinking, and experiencing to understand the pain points deeply. That tends to cut against the stereotypical startup team of two young twenty-somethings hacking away and living on ramen, who have never studied the insurance industry or directly experienced the pain of searching for or relying heavily on health insurance (bc young 20 somethings tend not to have major health problems). I think that's a key reason why startups haven't done much innovation in the insurance payer market.

My latest line of thinking is about whether there are hacks around the problem that can incrementally chip away at and disintermediate insurance payers as the sole gateway to affordable healthcare.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#376
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that if the article slants one way, it can be the third cousin of a long-distant relative who knew Bill Gates and suddenly it's something hackers are direly interested in. If it slants another, it can be study of small startups and the economic principles that drive success or failure using a double-blind study and suddenly it's too political for us to touch. For me, the best metric is just looking at what kin…

Nope, it's politics, it should be banned, period. I agree heartily with the point of the article, but it should not be here.

The fact that people think something as important as the nation's health care is politics may be a problem in its self.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#377
post #121
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's not. I pay $120/month for a family of three, and get pretty good care for it. I know that smug Canadians are a cliche in any discussion of health care, but we are an existence proof that acabal's expectations are totally reasonable.

How much of that is subsidized by your taxes? That counts towards the final cost. Spreading it out doesn't make it less real. edit: answered for you: > In 2009, the government funded about 70% of Canadians' health care costs. > Per capita expenditure in 2009: 3,895 $227 per month, per person, comes from the government, which gets its funding from your taxes. So you're paying $801/month for that plan (three people). S…

So my taxes count, but acabal's don't?

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#378
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to me, an affordable health insurance plan would be between $50-$100 a month. Fat chance of that happening. And if it did, the deductible would be so high as to make the plan worthless for anything short of a car-crash-emergency-type-situation. This fits a fair number of cost complaints I hear over healthcare. Who wouldn't like to pay $50-100/month to have something better than emergency healthcare support? But thi…

At $50-100/month, they would have to sap you for nearly a decade to make up a single surgery. The point of insurance is that the risk that you need a lot of attention is diluted by being in a pool with insurance takers that mostly don't need that attention. You pay for your surgery together . Insurance has the interesting property of being an inherently Socialist service that you are purchasing from capitalist compan…

You are betting that you will have large bills. Your insurance company is betting that you won't.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a weird summary of how "free markets" and "supply and demand" work. Yes, you will pay everything you have for a cure. But the guy who will offer you a cure for "everything you have minus one dollar" is going to get your business.

But the guy who will offer you a cure for "everything you have minus one dollar" is going to get your business. Not necessarily. Suppose you have a deadly condition. Your information is extremely limited as non-professional. Would ... you can pay all your money now for the cure your doctor offers or you can wander over to an unknown provider for the best price? The quality of unknown providers is ... unknown and your…

If you dig enough in the medicare automated billing system documentation, you can find prices for particular codes. At least what medicare is willing to pay.

I hope I never have to use this information, but it's out there.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Few will admit that we don't have anything close to a free market in healthcare today (or for the past several decades). A truly free market is one unfettered by the FDA, medicare, medicaid, doctor regulations, hospital regulations, HMO regulations, insurance regulations, etc. All of these controls were ostensibly put in place to protect patients, but in actuality they serve to slow innovation and true access to medi…

How wrong you are. No man is an island. Neither you, nor anything you create is created in isolation. Dependencies are ever-present and failing to understand this leads to failed ideas such as "true free market" not unlike the idea of "true communism". In reality the very fact that you are alive to write your words is a testament of other peoples effort including your parents to guard you against the many many danger…

Then it's wrong in a very unfortunate Founding Fathers way also. Because the Declaration of Independence states that we DO have inalienable rights and they ARE natural laws (i.e., endowed by our creator, which is a religious way of saying natural law).
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