Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

uspirg.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

371–380 of 439 posts

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#371

Post by Pigo »

magduf wrote: post #168
monocasa wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen a few arguments. * That modern tractors are complex enough systems that only official techs should be working on them. * That if they allow third party mods, they can't guarantee regulatory compliance with emissions. * That they have proprietary secrets that would need to be divulged of the systems were more open, and they just wouldn't have bothered in the first place. * That their pricing model is depende…

Those arguments don't work in the automotive market. Modern cars are just as complex, yet anyone is allowed to change their own oil or do anything they want really (though they can get frustrated by anything requiring a proprietary scan tool). And car owners are allowed to mode their cars however they want as long as they don't run afoul of emissions laws (yet many of them do anyway, because enforcement is poor).

That's a good point. If a farmer mods it into being illegal, it's on him isn't it?

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#372

Post by bregma »

h0l0cube wrote: post #285
metiscus wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depending on the plant, you'll get either of the two species used to make the hybrid instead of the hybrid itself.

Thank you, and excuse my naivete here. So what makes the hybrid route the optimal way to produce these GM plants, rather than cross-breeding in a way that survives reproduction? Do we know GM crops to always be hybrids of this nature?

A mule is a hybrid. It's bigger and stronger than either a donkey or a horse. It is infertile. It's the same with your garden variety hybrid corn or tomatoes. Big easily stotable and shippable product (but without flavour or desirable texture), but is infertile or doesn't breed true.

Not all hybrids are infertile. Maize corn was developed from its wild progenitors through centuries of genetic modification through selective hybridization -- it is not a plant found in nature -- and that required viable offspring. The same goes for other major crops developed by scientists in the past few centuries, like potatoes, tomatoes, and peppers (interesting pattern there, they all originated in the same part of the world).

It's incorrect to conflate hybridization with modern direct gene manipulation (GMO). They both have the same goal, and effectively do the same thing, but are completely different approaches. Hybridization requires the cross-breeding of unrelated varieties or species, and involves both genetic and epigenetic selection. GMO is directly splicing genes of a single organism to produce altered offspring. Don;t confuse the two.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#373

Post by bregma »

tapvt wrote: post #220
toomanybeersies wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen and used farm equipment and machine tools (lathes, mills, etc.) from the 40's and 50's that are still in good serviceable condition. I think it's been a long time since farmers cultivated their own seed though, even before roundup-resistant and GM crops were commonplace. It's a very different science and skill to growing crops.

I still run a 1949 Ford 8N tractor. No heroic measures needed to keep it going. Just routine maintenance.

You can still buy 9Ns from the 1930s around where I live. Also, you can still buy new parts from after-market suppliers. They might not handle 16-bottom plows or even a round baler but they're still damn good machines for basic work and they're simple enough to maintain that even I could do it.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#374

Post by squish78 »

mythrwy wrote: post #204
bdamm wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is patently absurd. There is a reason why nearly every corn and wheat farm has a combine.

A lot of times agronomic crop farmers don't own harvest machinery at all. They grow the crop then contract the harvest (or alternatively sell the harvest in the field).

This is true. The issue, in my opinion, is that if we complicate the agricultural industry with too many specialized independent operators, it just creates more potential places to fail. Farming is one of those trades where its better to have generalists, for the sake of creating a resilient food supply

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#375

Post by [deleted] »

vectorEQ wrote: post #353
LennyWhiteJr wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cash crops use something known as hybrid vigor ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterosis ) which breeds together two distinct, albeit mediocre, blends into a single offspring that is sort of like a super plant. The catch though is that it only works for a single generation, and if you were to replant the crop's offspring you would end up with a highly undesirable crop. For this reason, almost no farmers replant using…

is this for all farms or just very large ones? i can imagine small time farmers perhaps not having such super seeds / plants?

[deleted]

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#376

Post by bregma »

daemin wrote: post #347
closetohome wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The search for an ongoing revenue stream is one of the most destructive forces in the tech industry. It leads to some very customer-hostile experiences.

I think software broke economics in a way, since that was one of the only products which you could produce once and sell infinitely. No other thing on the planet you could do that with. All other things you need to transform something physical or spend time doing which results in a linear mapping between input and output. Digital goods (such as music, games, etc) do not count as independent things since they are impl…

I'd like to introduce you to some songwriter friends of mine.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#377

Post by squish78 »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #138
squish78 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think on this topic long enough, and you'll find yourself starting a vegetable garden in the spring.

Good exercise away from the computer, and nice fresh food too. Makes a lot of sense.

You might enjoy the author Michael Pollan, if you haven't already encountered his books. He writes on the history of agriculture and human diet

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#378

Post by xadhominemx »

h0l0cube wrote: post #271
SquareWheel wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment on GM crops is technically correct but also misleading. Most crops are already grown from hybrid seeds. For reasons of genetics, hybrid seeds cannot be reused in the next season. It's also quite a time-consuming process to reuse seeds, which makes the whole process less cost effective anyway. GM crops have not had a significant effect on this issue.

> For reasons of genetics, hybrid seeds cannot be reused in the next season. Can you provide supporting evidence/materials to back this claim?

Have you tried google? This is a very basic fact about hybrid seeds.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#379

Post by lightedman »

CamelCaseName wrote: post #233
andrepd wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows 7 is due to stop being updated very soon, all the while the only alternative is to downgrade into Windows 10.j sure don't call that "basically forever".

1. Windows 7 was supported with security updates for over 10 years (2009-2020). Second to only Windows XP (13 years) 2. They offered free upgrades to Windows 10 for a long time (a year?) 3. Replacement cycles for consumer desktops/laptops are short relative to OS cycles, with some internet stats saying ~5 years on average. 4. You can still run Windows 7, you just won't get security updates. You're free to repair it o…

"They FORCED free upgrades to Windows 10 for a long time (a year?)"

Fixed that little lie for you. I still have two hard drives with Win10 still half-installed because I sure as fuck did not authorize Microsoft to change my computer, yet somehow they re-enabled automatic updates and forced that shit onto my systems..

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#380

Post by blackearl »

justinclift wrote: post #324
FactolSarin wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft products get supported basically forever. But they're not cool/trendy.

Excuse me if I don't believe you. The Win 7 VM we (sqlitebrowser.org) use for our Windows nightly builds stopped receiving Windows Updates a few months ago. Microsoft seems to have decided to not honour the (legit) serial from MSDN. With no warning or explanation.

Microsoft will support you, but for a hefty cost.
Post reply on HN