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PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

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Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#371

Post by solveit »

JackFr wrote: post #369
linuxhansl wrote: post #123

Whatever you might think of the various professions... As long as it is legal, it seems the major payment service providers should not pass on their moral code onto everybody else. What's next? You get no water/power/whatever if you run a business that the service providers simply do not agree with?

Talk to tobacco about being deplatformed. Tobacco companies have banking, but fewer places sell cigarettes or allow smoking. It’s not discrimination —- neither cam girls or tobacco farmers are a protected class. Payment processing isn’t a right.

The point is that payment processing very well should be a right in this age.

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#372

Post by [deleted] »

geomark wrote: post #257
bcheung wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had several friends in the adult industry have their checking accounts closed at a several major banks as well. Traditional banking should definitely not be discriminating against fully legal activities.

This is the thing I find very disturbing. That an industry as highly regulated and essential to every day life as banking can pick and choose based on management's moral choices.

[deleted]

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#373

Post by derangedHorse »

short_sells_poo wrote: post #264
geomark wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the thing I find very disturbing. That an industry as highly regulated and essential to every day life as banking can pick and choose based on management's moral choices.

It's not a moral choice. It's a case of the business is not worth the hassle. KYC rules mean the bank is on the hook if they are found to harbor ill gotten gains and the sex industry had a some troubles in the past, while not producing enough volume on an individual level to make it worthwhile for a bank to overlook things.

That just seems like profiling at that point, since they’re basically rejecting service to an individual just because of their profession. Sure they might say that there may be a higher probability of a someone in the adult industry being involved in illegal activities, but is it fair to outright deny service on such a wide scale?

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#374

Post by beatgammit »

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #359
bcheung wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had several friends in the adult industry have their checking accounts closed at a several major banks as well. Traditional banking should definitely not be discriminating against fully legal activities.

Talk to gun retailers that were shut down by Chase and Bank of America. Legal has nothing to do with it. There is an increasing degree of business that entirely revolves around feelings of people who yell the loudest.

This tells me we need more anonymity.

A bank doesn't need to know any more about you than wherever is necessary to complete a transaction and report tax details to you and the government, and honestly that can be done with only a tax identification number (which should be separate from a Social Security Number). The same goes for payment processors, though payment processors may additionally need a company/individual nickname (for convenience in printing on receipts) and a bank account to deliver funds.

I see absolutely no reason for an organization like PayPal or Chase to know who its clientele are, just whether they're legal from a tax perspective, unless the customer provides that voluntarily. And I could even see legislation preventing the collection of such data since it could be used to restrict access to essential services like banking.

I think this gets us most of the benefits of cryptocurrency from a privacy point of view, but still maintains the ability of a government to track down fraud by cross referencing tax data with transactions. The only time someone need be connected to their bank account or payment processor account is if they're suspected of a crime, which would require a warrant.

It shouldn't be possible, IMO, for payment processors to just refuse service based on dislike for the line of work the business owner is in. There are no restrictions on how currency may be used, so digital payments should be treated the same way.

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#375

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #234
stale2002 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My bank isn't deplatforming me, when I transfer money from coinbase, though. So this is already a solved issue. They aren't deplatforming me right now!

Are you a sex worker?

I’m being down voted, but sex workers are some times deprived of bank services because of their jobs.

Literally told to take their banking else where.

How does using crypto help? Does it’s use suddenly make you immune from banks finding out your source of income?

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/banks-accused-of-slut-shaming-fo...

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#376

Post by spookthesunset »

zelly wrote: post #253
na85 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Bitcoin won't solve deplatforming, because the existence of Bitcoin doesn't preclude a bank from deplatforming you. Until Bitcoin is ubiquitous (doubtful this will occur in my life time) we are still vulnerable to deplatforming when we go to exchange btc for fiat.

You can use an ATM (or localbitcoins) to cash out Bitcoin without any connection to your bank account. Bitcoin doesn't have to be ubiquitous to use it even today, you just have to find businesses that accept Bitcoin. A buddy of mine accepts rent from a tenant in Bitcoin. There are exchanges to buy gift cards or Amazon credits with Bitcoin which you can use in real life to buy food. You can realistically go about your…

> There are exchanges to buy gift cards or Amazon credits with Bitcoin which you can use in real life to buy food.

Which I’m sure are totally legit and not at all primarily used to launder money.

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#377

Post by RileyJames »

bcheung wrote: post #247
aazaa wrote: post #135

Financial deplatforming is a monster, long-term trend to watch over the next decades. Deplatforming happens with sex workers. It also happens in the US marijuana industry. It happens with perfectly legal political content. The number of ways in which someone, somewhere will be offended by products or services for sale is growing, driven by a rapidly improving worldwide communication network and delivery system, and b…

I've had several friends in the adult industry have their checking accounts closed at a several major banks as well. Traditional banking should definitely not be discriminating against fully legal activities.

This debate is currently brewing in Australia, except its against providing services to mining companies.

When is right / wrong to boycott? And who should be allowed to? (Persons or companies)

Context: in Australia the prime minister (Scott Morrison) is looking into laws to ban boycotts by companies (who are being compelled by people / public opinion)

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#379

Post by lostlogin »

bcheung wrote: post #247
aazaa wrote: post #135

Financial deplatforming is a monster, long-term trend to watch over the next decades. Deplatforming happens with sex workers. It also happens in the US marijuana industry. It happens with perfectly legal political content. The number of ways in which someone, somewhere will be offended by products or services for sale is growing, driven by a rapidly improving worldwide communication network and delivery system, and b…

I've had several friends in the adult industry have their checking accounts closed at a several major banks as well. Traditional banking should definitely not be discriminating against fully legal activities.

Considering the things that banks have financed in the past, the hypocrisy of this stance by banks is incredible. Everything up to and including genocide has been ok by them.

Re: PayPal stops payouts to models on Pornhub

#380

Post by spookthesunset »

ianhawes wrote: post #218
httpsterio wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think PayPal might've publicly said that this is solely because porn poses a greater risks and SFW businesses just due to the amount of actually fraudulent payments and account hacking performed to pay for porn. Also, there's the less obvious issue with charge backs and people lying about getting hacked and having to deal with all that.

My experience in both digital payments and the adult space is that this line of reasoning (high risk + fraud) is outdated. The myth that adult payments are higher risk is perpetuated by those certain PSPs (CCBill, et al) that process adult payments for 15-20%, require 4% reserves, and have very high setup fees. I would love to see an adult version of Stripe to help innovate payments in the adult industry. Paging @pc?…

I’d be curious to see that backed up. Having worked in the industry at one time, all I can say is there is a good reason merchant accounts are super expensive for porn sites. All the players in the game are pretty sketch.
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