Firefox is way slower than chrome to just open a web page on my pixel 3a. Do others not have this experience?
Firefox has lots of room to improve if it wants to beat Chrome
371–380 of 401 posts
Re: Firefox has lots of room to improve if it wants to beat Chrome
#372Earlier quoted context omitted.
Webdevs don’t seem to have much of a user-centric view of the sites they develop. The vast majority of use cases on the web are “I want to see a list of options then fill in a form”. All the tech needed to shop online or bank or pay bills or book travel or whatever existed 20 years ago (SSL being the last piece of the puzzle, all the rest is just plain HTML).
If form controls like select lists and checkboxes were style-able and compose-able I think it would reduce the need for JS in many cases. Multi select in particular feels like it's stuck in the 90's. Also select's lack of consistent search capabilities is painful.
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/da...
Re: Firefox has lots of room to improve if it wants to beat Chrome
#373Firefox has plenty of room for improvement, but this article doesn't touch on it. 1. People don't install their own browser, unless they're on a new computer and want the browser they've always used — people are conservative when making technological choices and when they switch browsers, it's often because they get a friend to install it for them, or they buy a new computer, or install some app that tricks them into…
Although I have come to not mind pocket as a decent and not completely invasive news feed, I still have absolutely no concept of wtf pocket actually _is_ beyond some kind of bookmark sync addon that's now first party, but not like the firefox account sync that i dont use either?
Re: Firefox has lots of room to improve if it wants to beat Chrome
#374Does Firefox really want to beat Chrome? Netmarketshare shows "Firefox - 9.28%, IE - 8.29%" on desktop/laptops, it's not the position to win the race. Also, Firefox sends analytics/telemetry to Google - https://twitter.com/jonathansampson/status/11658588961766604... Very strange decision for competing products, don't you?
Re: Firefox has lots of room to improve if it wants to beat Chrome
#375* Multiple profiles simultaneously, one for normal browsing, another for authenticated sites I care about, etc.
* Lots of windows and tabs. My main FF usually had around ~20 windows (spread across a huge virtual desktop) and ~300 tabs.
* The amazing Session Manager addon, which would, when FF imploded, let me restart FF, choose which session to restore, and then do so, perfectly, even restoring windows to their correct positions in sections of the virtual screen several feet to the sides of my monitors.
Like I said, Firefox worked flawlessly for this, while Chrome was a flaming disaster.
The decline in Firefox since has been like this:
1) Session Manager loses the ability to restore off-screen positions.
2) So I switched to using more topic-oriented FF profiles, so that if topic X on virtual screen (2, 3) dies, I can just go restart it on the right virtual screen, without having to move a dozen windows there. Annoying as hell, but not fatal.
3) Firefox has the Great Addon Debacle - where many addons abruptly stop working, including Session Manager.
4) The firefox team recognizes that something like SM is required, but the result has far less time put into it, is buggy, forgets which URL went into some of the tabs, can only restore the last session (so if you restart twice without restoring, rank stupidity follows to restore the session you wanted), and so on.
5) At some point, Firefox starts consuming a LOT more process slots (by default), greatly increasing its ability to consume far, far more CPU time
6) This doesn't affect me a lot at first, since I've long saved process cycles - and power - by suspending all Firefox processes when my screen locks. It's worked perfectly since about a year after JavaScript become a thing (but...)
7) I discover that some aspect of FF, the new, sad, session management, and contention between all the FF content procs now means that when FF awakens after its nap when I unlock the screen, they now want to dump some 2 MB/s of data into my hard drive. After a night of suspension, since FF doesn't realize it was asleep, it apparently walks through every time point where it would have saved and does it all at once. My home and work computers (both of which are pretty meaty) are completely useless for up to 20 minutes after unlocking the screen, as FF hammers the disk drive continuously, often made even worse by FF's ongoing tendency to balloon up to 10 to 20 GiB in each content process.
Obviously I've taken steps to find variables relating to how often it checkpoints, and reduced the frequency. I've cut the number of content proc process it runs, but the fundamental issue is:
For power users with lots of profile and windows/tabs, Firefox used to be The Answer.
Chrome is horrible in the same situations Firefox used to excel in.
I don't want Firefox to become Chrome. Chrome is garbage for us. A browser only suitable for a handful of tabs (i.e. The only thing I wanted was for Firefox to be able to tell me WHICH TAB IS EATING CPU TIME SO I CAN KILL THAT TAB.
Still doesn't do it.
Sigh.
(Arcana: I miss NeWS and "psps" / "pskill" which did address this kind of problem)
Re: Firefox has lots of room to improve if it wants to beat Chrome
#376Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can install a “progressive web app” as a native Android app now. There’s been a big push to develop PWAs on the heels of react and single page apps for a couple years now - google is doing a good job trying to support the web as users move so aggressively to mobile. Facebook basically has its own browser in-app(iOS and Android), i bet that browser has more traffic than Firefox.
Google is a bit schizophrenic though. You can watch IO talks from Android, Chrome, Flutter where the presenter eventually throws some jabs at other competing stacks as if they aren't from the same employer.
Where I work, departments bill each other. Sometimes, two departments develop competing tools that are third department could make use of. Instead the third department use an off the shelf tool because the "license" for the internal tools is too expensive.
At these scales, companies are almost like states. A group of entities with shared services but otherwise working independently.
Re: Firefox has lots of room to improve if it wants to beat Chrome
#377Earlier quoted context omitted.
Webdevs don’t seem to have much of a user-centric view of the sites they develop. The vast majority of use cases on the web are “I want to see a list of options then fill in a form”. All the tech needed to shop online or bank or pay bills or book travel or whatever existed 20 years ago (SSL being the last piece of the puzzle, all the rest is just plain HTML).
If form controls like select lists and checkboxes were style-able and compose-able I think it would reduce the need for JS in many cases. Multi select in particular feels like it's stuck in the 90's. Also select's lack of consistent search capabilities is painful.
Re: Firefox has lots of room to improve if it wants to beat Chrome
#378Earlier quoted context omitted.
I changed bank - I had an account with a bank (RBS?) in the late 90s / early 00s, couldn't access it from linux, yet I could access HSBC, so RBS lost my custom. My current bank (Smile) works in Firefox on linux, so that's fine. If it didn't, they'll be losing my custom.
Sometimes I am astonished by the life other people apparently lead. For example when they'd invest the energy to switch their bank (and all that is attached to that) over using a different browser to access a singular website. I do not understand. It boggles my mind, in the most curious way.
Re: Firefox has lots of room to improve if it wants to beat Chrome
#379Earlier quoted context omitted.
Interesting, that could be something not too complicated to change on Firefox, I'll try to contribute when I'll have a bit more time. At least that's the first time I see something I could realistically improve.
I'm not sure whether Firefox should actually be changed. It looks like Firefox may be conforming to the standard and Lloyds devs may have intended to use that standardised behaviour to thwart keyloggers. Only they seem to have forgotten to test whether it actually does block keyloggers, and it only does so in Firefox. So my grand example for a website not working well in Firefox may be just the opposite - Firefox sav…
I can remember one case of such a thing happening before: css box-sizing.
Before the attribute existed, the spec said content-box was correct, and all browsers except IE implemented it that way. IE implemented border-box, going against spec, but it turned out to make so much more sense it was eventually added to CSS, and nowadays is the recommended way to go (but still not the default value).
Re: Firefox has lots of room to improve if it wants to beat Chrome
#380I haven't really met anyone who is particularly bothered by these issues. They certainly should be addressed to some degree, but the issues I find people are bothered about in Firefox are something that Mozilla has very little control over: Bugs in sites. As a full-time firefox user, I commonly find that sites have bugs, and when I boot it up in Chrome just to check my hunch, they don't manifest. It's pretty easy to…