The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness • Hacker News Board

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#371

Post by BeetleB » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 7:40 PM UTC

dangus wrote: post #200

The article is long and I skimmed a bit. It appears to be one of these pieces that just covers so many topics and issues, I'm not sure which ones correlate to loneliness and which ones don't. I'll tell you one thing, and this is a personal belief: the modern way of making a living and the modern relationship to my family is far preferable to me than "the old way." For most of human history we've had to stick with our…

I think you're believing in a false dichotomy. You can have a full family experience without doing labor, or working a farm, or a family business. Look at immigrant families from certain parts of the world. When I lived in the Midwest, I interacted with them. Most of them were well educated, and not doing business or laborious work. They were spread apart in different cities, but mostly within driving distance. Culturally, they insisted on maintaining close social ties.

A coworker of mine who is in his 30's (PhD in engineering, doing tech work) is thinking he'll move back to the Midwest where his family is after 2-3 more years here (West coast). He loves it here (especially the weather), but all the niceties in culture and weather here don't compensate for the lack of having family and cousins nearby. His kids will grow up there, just as he did.

(Just in case anyone is wondering, he's not white, and so will be moving back to a much less diverse part of the country).

Having experienced both sides, there are definitely down sides to close family ties, but I view family as a wider spectrum. If your relatives are horrible (or way out of sync with your mindset), then it's much worse than the individualist mindset. But if you get along with them, it's way better than anything you can achieve as an individualist.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#372

Post by kaitai » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 7:40 PM UTC

thrower123 wrote: post #142

hughes wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they? I usually feel like the last thing I'd ever do at a gym is talk to someone, and someone talking to me would be really surprising...

I find that if I'm going to the gym to work out, I don't much talk to people - when I'm lifting or on the treadmill or whatever, I'm focused on what I'm doing, and everybody else seems to be in the same boat. However, if it's something like a pickup basketball or soccer game, there's always time when you are waiting around between games that there is time for people to interact and chit-chat. Even more so with someth…

Pickup Ultimate Frisbee is one of my suggestions, as you're right on about this. There is pickup Ultimate everywhere and people are mellow and friendly. You can use pickupultimate.com to look up local games (it's not complete, but a good start). People will happily teach you how to play -- just stand on the sideline & ask questions. Bring a white shirt and a dark shirt and you're ready to go.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#373

Post by Angostura » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 7:40 PM UTC

xenospn wrote: post #114

WhompingWindows wrote: post #2

I felt loneliness acutely this week. I live alone, spend most evenings alone, and on top, work's coding and research has been slow for 2 weeks. Collaborators are at conferences and on vacation, so I had much less work and much less face-to-face contact than usual. Given that I code on my own, distribute analyses via email, and occasionally meet if people are around, I barely talked to people some days this week. Goin…

Adopt a dog. Go to the park twice a day. You’ll feel amazing.

Not a great idea if you are out at work all day.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#374

Post by irrational » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 7:41 PM UTC

Is it just the family, or is it also community institutions?

I'm thinking specifically about the decline in church attendance. Regardless of your beliefs, church congregations (not mega-churches, but small congregations of at most a few hundred) provided a built-in community that could provide support, companionship, activities, etc. So far I haven't seen anything that really replicates all those communities had to offer.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#375

Post by holy_city » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 7:41 PM UTC

kaitai wrote: post #357

holy_city wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's imo a stronger argument that economic/financial factors are far more significant than "feminism." The closing in the employment gap in the 1980s was driven by hyperinflation and consumer debt - everyone had to work to pay the bills. Similarly, contraceptives aren't the reason people have fewer children. It's the fact we can't afford childcare and housing for a family.

These are big factors. I'm also struck, though, by the short historical view most of these comments have. Back in the day, many people "stayed at home", where that means tending the gardens and fields, tending the cows and pigs, hunting for additional protein, gathering for additional carbs and sugars, doing the washing and getting the water. Pre-Industrial Revolution, this whole "men go to work and earn a wage while…

I mean I don't think you're wrong, I just think talking about pre industrial society isn't particularly helpful when trying to understand factors behind trends in our current lifestyles.

In other words, yes current state is a function of all past states, but recent history has a far higher influence on next state than the far past. At a certain point you have to assume its influence to be close to zero.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#376

Post by SergeAx » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 7:41 PM UTC

residentfoam wrote: post #106

I have been lucky enough to be able to work and live in several countries around the world. One thing in common I noticed in all these places is that guys and girls don't have time and don't want to commit to a stable long relation. They invest pretty much themselves and their time in their career, traveling , parties, dogs, cats and bitcoins :) ! The mantra is to get rich and retire at 40 years old! Travel the world…

> They are so used to live their own lives that they have extremely hard time compromising any part of it.

I say that when someone having extremely hard time doing something, he/she just doesn't need that something hard enough. Most of the people rarely have hard time eating or drinking or watching interesting movie or spending time with friends.

Before XX century it was extremely hard to live alone, unless one have stable source of income or an inheritance. For lay people family was just a question of survival. Children was the only recipe of aging in dignity.

It is still valid in XXI century, but now there are other ways to live one's life. Forties is not an age of retirement, but a most active age of reaping rewards and even starting a new ventures. There are other means of self realization besides family and children. I don't see anything particularly bad about it.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#377

Post by bravura » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 7:41 PM UTC

Formerly: The decline of being single has unleashed an epidemic of claustrophobia.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#378

Post by beat » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 7:42 PM UTC

My own concerns are different. I'm in my 50s now, happily married for over 25 years, with a terrific social life. I'm not at all lonely or isolated.

It's my children that I worry about.

They're boy/girl twins, now 25. My daughter is in the process of breaking up with the boyfriend she's lived with for the past two years, and moving back home to re-settle her life. She has a career, and wants to get married and start a family sometime soon. Her boyfriend is a great person to be around and she adores him, but... he doesn't want kids (and is actually freaked out by them). He doesn't want marriage. And he can't keep himself organized enough to uphold his financial/personal responsibilities in cohabitation. So where is she going to find a potential partner who shares her social values, and wants a life partnership and a co-parent, who can uphold their responsibilities? She doesn't even know where to look.

Her brother lives at home, and probably always will. He doesn't have a real career and can't adult well enough to live on his own, even if he had to. He has never been on a date, even, and lives for video games. What happens if he looks around one day and suddenly feels lonely for a family other than his aging parents? With no financial substance or adulting skills and no romantic experience, he's not much of a catch for partners his age. He'll have to take more family/household responsibility as he gets older, and that's fine, but what happens when his parents finally pass away and he's an old man?

As a parent, these situations worry me greatly.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#379

Post by tathougies » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 7:43 PM UTC

jonahrd wrote: post #105

taway060619 wrote: post #90

I’ve been feeling a pretty intense sort of depression and loneliness for the last month or so. The feelings of “you’re a white male and you work in tech and you are wealthy you are a SATAN” is just becoming too much :(. I volunteer a tremendous amount in education, where I’m the only male I generally even see in my field, and I constantly have to listen to my coworkers gleefully talk about how excited they are at how…

Just a piece of advice: try to take a step back and listen more carefully to the complaints you're hearing. When people talk about dismantling the patriarchy, or about racial privilege, they are not actually talking about any one particular person. You are fully able to be white, male, privileged, and still be an ally to those who do not benefit as much from the power structures in our society. Instead of feeling per…

How is this different than someone saying "I think feminists are trash, and feminists who disagree with me should take time to understand what I mean."

In other words, do you understand why what you are saying is victim blaming?

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#380

Post by astura » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 7:43 PM UTC

ratsimihah wrote: post #3

WhompingWindows wrote: post #2

I felt loneliness acutely this week. I live alone, spend most evenings alone, and on top, work's coding and research has been slow for 2 weeks. Collaborators are at conferences and on vacation, so I had much less work and much less face-to-face contact than usual. Given that I code on my own, distribute analyses via email, and occasionally meet if people are around, I barely talked to people some days this week. Goin…

Try yoga at a small studio, communities are often great :>

My anecdote: I went to yoga the same night at the same small studio for years. Mostly the same people showed up every week but I didn't find it to be an atmosphere good for socialization at all. I don't know at what point in a yoga class you'd have time for conversation.