French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen • Hacker News Board

Re: French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen

#371

Post by AsyncAwait » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 9:37 AM UTC

narag wrote: post #367

AsyncAwait wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure what you mean with "socially left-wing". They're pro choice, pro LGBTQ etc. but also very much pro things like privatization. As for "Is that something that doesn't cost money?" - that's a childish question that is almost not worth answering. Maintaining a functioning society always costs money, there's infrastructure & services to maintain. Taxes are going to get collected, so for me the only real que…

...that's a childish question that is almost not worth answering Wow, thank you. That actually saves me time. Once somebody answers like that, it's clear that any effort to reason would be a waste.

You do you, I just wish you were more honest in also quoting what was this reaction to & my reasoning for saying that. On the other hand, that may lead you to stop saying nonsense like that in the first place.

Re: French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen

#372

Post by akimball » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 11:22 AM UTC

xorand wrote: post #351

andbberger wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly they can. What's forcing you to publish in nature? Just like... don't. If someone down the line is judging you based on what journal your work ended up in and not the quality of the work... well you probably don't want to work with them anyway

Academic managers force you. Your older colleagues force you because they are part of the game. However, it is possible to work in academia and not to bend. Anyway, make your research available, no matter where you choose to publish it. Take a look at DORA http://www.ascb.org/dora/ and popularize this declaration among other researchers. Help your colleagues who don't know how to find an article fast.

Do not cite Nature articles.

Re: French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen

#373

Post by akimball » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 11:28 AM UTC

mrkstu wrote: post #280

class4behavior wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you allow illegal activity as a form of protest—when it is not the absolutely last option—, then you negate the legitimacy of the law in general. So even if you argue your illegal action was the best possible measure to move society forward, you still have to accept the consequences for breaking the law. In this case it is the presence of a legal device allowing to censor copyright-infringing sources which is bad;…

Agreed. I've thought of this as the 24/Jack Bauer line of thought. Torture is illegal and should be- but if you've tried everything else and you're running out of time before the nuke hidden in Los Angeles goes off- break the law and torture the terrorist. Then- go to the cops after saving the city\failing to save the city and turn yourself in. Accept the consequence for breaking the law. Civil disobedience embraces…

It seems very harmful to me to curry punitive action unless you are part of a mass movement with a valid aspiration to revoke the immoral law. Gratuitous self-harm just makes you a drain on everyone. Your moral purity is not worth harming the whole society.

Re: French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen

#374

Post by akimball » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 11:29 AM UTC

class4behavior wrote: post #272

stale2002 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best way to get a law changed is for everyone to be breaking it all of the time. Laws only works because everyone follows it most of the time. If everyone is breaking a law, the government can't punish everyone, and eventually people start to wonder why it is a law in the first place. We've seen this happen with other laws in the past, quite often. Pot legalization comes to mind.

Everyone is the magic word here. Reality isn't that trivial unfortunately and we aren't talking about instances where this approach worked, but whether this kind of approach is justifiable as a general procedure. While pot legalization is going well, there's also an opioid crisis. Does that mean we should further deregulate the opioid industry? Beside, the majority isn't necessarily in the right either. That's why no…

Yes. The opioid crisis is directly caused by regulation.

Re: French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen

#375

Post by madhadron » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 2:16 PM UTC

jplayer01 wrote: post #82

madhadron wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would expect there to be basically none. Most of the journals that people are after their university still pays for access for. Failing that, they email the author and get a copy directly. And if that isn't possible, there are a few people with wider ranging interests or wider ranging technical skills who know about sci-hub and libgen, and they will pass out the new domain name as necessary. Or even convince the de…

Not true. Most people I know of or personally in academia in Germany and other countries rely on scihub. It's an incredibly valuable resource.

I'm a few years out of date, then, and I'm glad to hear that the situation has changed.

Re: French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen

#376

Post by ElCapitanMarkla » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 3:05 PM UTC

YUMad wrote: post #226

jordigh wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they weren't torrent sites in the late 90s and probably not the early 2000s either. The Bittorrent protocol wasn't released until July 2001 and it took a few years to get popular. Back then, they were just servers you downloaded stuff from.

SuprNova started in 2nd half od 2002. Anime subbing groups also started offerin torrents very early.

I forgot about SuprNova. That site had me pushing my 10gb cap every month

Re: French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen

#377

Post by jancsika » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 5:25 PM UTC

bepvte wrote: post #31

colordrops wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't work like that. Hashes aren't compressed versions of the hashed content.

I think theyre suggesting hashing all of libgen and distributing and working backwards from that hash, as a joke

Well I wrote it wrong.

Imagine something like finding the seed for a pseudorandom number generator where the numbers generated form the byte pattern for libgen.

That's similar to the cryptominer hashing where people just have rigs enumerating through possible values to generate a hash with the appropriate number of leading zeros. It's just that libgen would be little bit longer than a hash and also have some ones interspersed with the zeros.

Re: French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen

#378

Post by cultureswitch » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 7:07 PM UTC

madhadron wrote: post #26

xvilka wrote: post #2

Would be interesting to measure the negative impact on a French science. Not sure how much though.

I would expect there to be basically none. Most of the journals that people are after their university still pays for access for. Failing that, they email the author and get a copy directly. And if that isn't possible, there are a few people with wider ranging interests or wider ranging technical skills who know about sci-hub and libgen, and they will pass out the new domain name as necessary. Or even convince the de…

I would expect using scihub to be more convenient than any other option except direct google scholar PDF results. I have access to my uni's resources and journal subscriptions, yet I don't know how to use them (and frankly I don't see the point). It's extremely likely that circumventing a DNS block is less of a hassle than the procedure to access paywalled articles in a large majority of institutions.

Re: French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen

#379

Post by cultureswitch » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 7:18 PM UTC

rapht wrote: post #254

As Western countries are all slowly drifting towards what amounts to government-sanctionned censorship by ISPs - especially after the adoption by the EU Parliement of the copyright directive, but it's just one more step in the general movement towards controlling who can publish what on the web -, we need more initiatives that bypass those ISPs, which are currently in the Western world the only ones capable of enforc…

I wonder how much time will pass before using a debugger becomes illegal unless you have a license.

Re: French ISPs Ordered to Block Sci-Hub and LibGen

#380

Post by kmlx » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 7:28 AM UTC

vkou wrote: post #140

kmlx wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Do you also expect that industrial executives, managers, and everyone down to the line workers get booked on terrorism charges, for poisoning our water supplies, if they are caught illegally polluting?" Not the original poster, but Yes, of course. Who doesn't expect that?

> Who doesn't expect that? People who have any experience with how the real world works. At best, the company may get a token fine, with the people giving the orders, and carrying them out never getting held accountable. At worst, much hooing and hawwing is had about how important is, and how pinky swears that it will never do what they did again.

just because reality is ruined at the moment doesn't mean i shouldn't expect the law to work. plus, we get CEOs sent to jail all the time, so it's not like there's no precedent.