European Parliament approves copyright reform • Hacker News Board

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#371

Post by jakelazaroff » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 2:49 PM UTC

dingaling wrote: post #273

philpem wrote: post #226

As I said on one of the other threads... 26 March 2019. The day the Internet died. (at least in Europe) But of course -- "the Internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it" -- so what we're likely to see is a massive spike in people streaming video over encrypted tunnels into other countries. That'd be interesting. It'd render GeoIP rather moot, among other things. I suspect the EU and Member States'…

> The day the Internet died. No. The day the ”Upload Other People's Work" Internet died. > what we're likely to see is a massive spike in people streaming video over encrypted tunnels Or just creating their own content. Wouldn't that be awesome?

A couple that might be affected by the lack of a fair use exemption in Article 13:

- use of unlicensed samples in music. Goodbye, Soundcloud rap and EDM music scenes!

- use of images and video clips in memes. Goodbye, Tumblr and Reddit!

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#372

Post by ocdtrekkie » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 2:49 PM UTC

reitanqild wrote: post #318

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copyright enforcement has always been about going after big abuses. With some incredibly rare exceptions, generally speaking, nobody has ever been at serious risk for sending one copy of a movie or music CD to a friend. There is too much sharing and too many individual parties to chase after every way people technically violate copyright law. Many of the cases out there involved people sharing on a large scale. Examp…

There's been a lot of shady copyright trolling against bittorrent users.

Arguably, BitTorrent is mass distribution of, frequently, large numbers of files, by design. That being said, I think you see a lot more activity against the torrent tracker sites than individual seeders, and it's exceedingly unlikely someone who just leeches would see any sort of legal harassment.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#373

Post by ApolloFortyNine » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 2:50 PM UTC

rorykoehler wrote: post #345

speeq wrote: post #322

Who wants to work with me on a new startup? "EU Upload-Filter as a Service"...

Tbh this should be an open sourced non profit tool by eff or similar

EFF wouldn't want to dignify this law by creating a tool like that. They are fully against it.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#374

Post by _bxg1 » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 2:51 PM UTC

random878 wrote: post #312

As someone who grew up alongside the internet, I wonder if this is just part of the bigger picture of where the internet has always been heading... The bigger, more popular, and ubiquitous it became the more corporate and political powers were going to seek to rule it. Now were are at an age of internet giants with the GDP of small countries, and political elections being swayed by the bovine herds of Facebook and Tw…

Other than VPNs and Tor (which can be blocked), how would people circumvent the fact that the pipes are still owned by the same players? We can't physically lay out "another internet". Maybe there's potential in radio mesh networking, but the wires we have are the wires we get. As depressing as it feels right now, I think the only real option is to continue pushing in the democratic channels we have. Governments can stop anything if they care to; we have to work with them.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#375

Post by majewsky » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 2:51 PM UTC

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #295

philpem wrote: post #226

As I said on one of the other threads... 26 March 2019. The day the Internet died. (at least in Europe) But of course -- "the Internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it" -- so what we're likely to see is a massive spike in people streaming video over encrypted tunnels into other countries. That'd be interesting. It'd render GeoIP rather moot, among other things. I suspect the EU and Member States'…

What's weird to me is: Europe isn't exactly a content powerhouse. Why are they so concerned with copyright protections?

> Why are [European politicians] so concerned with copyright protections?

It's election year. Since the big publishers are all for the reform, any politicians opposing it must fear for bad press.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#376

Post by speeq » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 2:52 PM UTC

rorykoehler wrote: post #345

speeq wrote: post #322

Who wants to work with me on a new startup? "EU Upload-Filter as a Service"...

Tbh this should be an open sourced non profit tool by eff or similar

It was meant as a joke tbh. It's sad that this is now a requirement for EU startups. Might as well incorporate in the US and launch US-first / ignore the EU market until you have the resources to deal with these laws.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#377

Post by unicornporn » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 2:53 PM UTC

makomk wrote: post #354

unicornporn wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All for-profit plateforms over 3 years old are affected, even small ones https://www.politico.eu/pro/germany-weighs-in-on-copyright-w... So, what happened to that? ^ Parliament wanted: > Apply the law to platforms that “optimise and promote” significant amounts of user-uploaded works and are not small businesses (turnover below €10M and less than 50 employees) According to: https://juliareda.eu/2018/10/copyright-tr…

Apparently, France happened to that: https://juliareda.eu/2019/02/article-13-worse/

So you're saying this is what passed? If it wasn't for the "Available to the public for less than 3 years", I wouldn't be as worried.

---

Upload filters must be installed by everyone except those services which fit all three of the following extremely narrow criteria:

* Available to the public for less than 3 years

* Annual turnover below €10 million

* Fewer than 5 million unique monthly visitors

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#378

Post by activis » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 2:53 PM UTC

DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #346

activis wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nord Stream 2 would make gas system in Ukraine vurnable and allows further military escalation from Russia side, as it would be possible to transport gas via Nord Stream 2. This would make peace in EU under question also since aggression won't be in Ukraine only in case it escalates. Also Nord Stream 2 would make Germany more dependent on Russia gas. At the same time US wants to have EU and Germany on their side in f…

> Germany on the other side does not like "being controlled" and has some attraction to Russia. Being German myself, I don't think it has so much to do with being controlled or not, but the difference between several powers having some degree of influence vs. one having it all. Russia and the USA are certainly two very big players in world politics, and Germany already seems to have plenty of co-dependence with the U…

Sure. I agree. I used "controlled" word as some kind of abstraction. It is more about influence.

From ukrainian point of view Germany seems to forget about risks of not isolating Russia after Russia annexed territories and invaded several countries. WW2 did begin some kind of similarly as I understand: countries were seeking for "balance" and didn not want to make any rough decisions which could influence their economics in a "bad" way. The result was not very good.

I understand that every country has interests. But in this very case we see that Germany is already buying russian gas through ukrainian gas system without any issues besides risks intriduced by Russia itself. So Nord Stream 2 is more about relationships and not the gas or economics alone.

At the moment we see Article 11 and 13 approved as a consequence. And it is just the beginning.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#379

Post by philpem » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 2:54 PM UTC

rurban wrote: post #367

philpem wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need only look at the rampant abuse of Content ID to see what the likely result will be... "Sorry, the video you uploaded 'Me playing Beethoven on the piano' contains BEETHOVEN'S 5TH SYMPHONY by BMG-EMI-XYZ Music Corp. You cannot upload this video."

This would be an invalid flag. BMG-EMI-XYZ Music Corp does not own this work, they could only own a certain recording of a certain orchestra playing this piece. And we know that detecting that certain recording via music matching does not work, only checking the strong hash of it would work. Which would be trivial to circumvent by a single bit-flip.

Content ID uses some kind of fuzzy matching... a "single bit flip" (as you put it) isn't enough to confuse it.

Yes it's true XYZ Music Corp would only own that performance (as it's Beethoven and the piece is long out of copyright). The problem is, the automatic filter is a fuzzy matcher: it compares the upload against every other performance of Beethoven's 5th it's been programmed to recognise.

Let's say our uploader has been learning from one of those performances. Their performance will sound very similar to another pianist's -- at least to the fuzzy-matcher.

And therein lies the problem: the uploader's piece is clearly copyright to them, but the magic upload filter can't tell the difference.

It's like uploading a silent theatre production (let's say some kind of homage to silent films) and the upload being flagged for violating the copyright in 4'33".

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#380

Post by rurban » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 2:54 PM UTC

speeq wrote: post #322

Who wants to work with me on a new startup? "EU Upload-Filter as a Service"...

Good luck with that. You'll get no funding, and you would need bigger resources than Google or Facebook. Europe once tried to implement a much simpler problem, search. They failed.

Upload-Filtering is impossible if done right. You could implement 30%, but this will not help you as you are still liable on any miss.