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EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

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Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#371

Post by HillaryBriss »

Barrin92 wrote: post #314
HillaryBriss wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the subject of Friedman, what was his take on how to address the deep personal losses suffered by tens of thousands of US based steel industry workers who lose their jobs? Many of these people become unemployed or underemployed for years. They seem to be taking a pretty big loss. Surely Friedman didn't expect them to just "take one for the team." I don't know. Maybe he did? Not sure.

Friedman's response to this was that there is always cost to some policy. The cost of protectionism just happens to fall on the majority of people which have no particular voice. Protecting the local steel industry might be good for the steel workers, but it raises prices for everyone else in the economy who consumes steel. Now certainly every time someone's job is disrupted by competition it is personally tragic, bu…

> why do the interests of one particular interest group weigh in larger than the well-being of everyone else?

then, if I interpret this correctly, Friedman's idea truly was that laid-off steelworkers "take one for the team"

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#372

Post by HillaryBriss »

zeroname wrote: post #329
HillaryBriss wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the subject of Friedman, what was his take on how to address the deep personal losses suffered by tens of thousands of US based steel industry workers who lose their jobs? Many of these people become unemployed or underemployed for years. They seem to be taking a pretty big loss. Surely Friedman didn't expect them to just "take one for the team." I don't know. Maybe he did? Not sure.

What about the "deep personal losses" suffered in the garment industry, in electronics, in agriculture? What about all the people that lost their jobs as a result of technological progress? What of those poor ice pickers, who lost their livelihood to the invention of the refrigerator?

right. more examples of the same. economic gains are unevenly distributed and some workers experience a deep net loss.

so, what regulatory or governmental policies and programs did Friedman think could actually help people once they arrive in that state? what can an economist say about policy for workers whose livelihood disappeared?

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#373

Post by zeroname »

FabHK wrote: post #369
zeroname wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where you got this idea, but the argument for comparative advantage has nothing to do with the redistribution of income, nor is there a claim of "fairness" towards each and every individual or interest group. To understand why comparative advantage is an advantage, you must consider the alternative: Economic protectionism. It results in inefficient allocation of labor, because everyone's job is protected…

> the argument for comparative advantage has nothing to do with the redistribution of income But it has. Comparative advantage shows you that the country as a whole can afford more with free trade than before. But one of the theoretical consequences of the Heckscher-Ohlin trade model [1] is factor price equalisation, ie in once country wages might fall while returns to capital increase. Inevitably, there are winners…

Comparative advantage shows that production in either countries is improved, increasing supply and therefore putting pressure on prices, increasing the purchasing power. This simply isn't redistribution of income.

An individual worker, whose livelihood is destroyed and who is unable to perform any other form of work (unlikely, but conceivable) will of course have less than before. I don't see anybody making the argument that every single individual will be better off (that's obviously wrong), but the purchasing power of every individual income will increase.

You can make an argument that such inequalities should be mitigated by some income-redistributing measure or another, but that's orthogonal to comparative advantage itself.

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#374

Post by codesushi42 »

ascar wrote: post #355
codesushi42 wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sushi rolls are not traditionally Japanese. You will typically see sashimi, not sushi rolls, in Japan. The type of sushi Americans eat is not at all like what is eaten in Japan, and is frankly pretty terrible in comparison. And you will never, ever, see cream cheese on sushi in Japan.

I'm living in Japan for the last four months. I'm very well aware that the inside-out maki we got in the West are not Japanese. Sashimi is not at all the typical meal, in fact it's actually not even sushi. You won't find it on most sushi platters as commonly used for parties and not even in running Sushi restaurants (yes, they are also very common here), but you will mostly find Nigiri. In supermarkets bento area you…

The reason cream cheese is not used is because they don't want it on sushi. You can find cheese on sandwiches and pizza in Japan pretty easily.

Cream cheese isn't popular in Europe either.

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#375

Post by max76 »

azernik wrote: post #305
lozenge wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hardly. The countries already made these non binding commitments, there is still no penalty for breaking them, and they bear no resemblance to what would be required to stay below 1.5C or 2C (the supposed headline achievement of Paris). They were not negotiated on either - they are just what each country has said it would do.

There is technically a penalty, but it's unlikely to be enforced - if one party breaches their commitments, they could be considered in breach of the agreement and the other party would have license to break it.

As the effects of climate change become worse I suspect enforcement of these penalties to increase.

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#376

Post by ascar »

codesushi42 wrote: post #374
ascar wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm living in Japan for the last four months. I'm very well aware that the inside-out maki we got in the West are not Japanese. Sashimi is not at all the typical meal, in fact it's actually not even sushi. You won't find it on most sushi platters as commonly used for parties and not even in running Sushi restaurants (yes, they are also very common here), but you will mostly find Nigiri. In supermarkets bento area you…

The reason cream cheese is not used is because they don't want it on sushi. You can find cheese on sandwiches and pizza in Japan pretty easily. Cream cheese isn't popular in Europe either.

What's your point in derailing and making wrong statements? Cream cheese goes well inside (not on top) of sushi, which is backed by it's popularity outside of Japan. Which was a reply to GP saying cheese doesn't "go" with Japanese cuisine. None of your replies make any counter argument relevant to that, because it has nothing to do with current usage, but with future possibilities.

It might not be the first choice of most Japanese, if they kew about it, but neither is pizza. Pizza is, like cheese in supermarkets, an overpriced exotic or tourist meal. Sandwiches are a notable exception of affordable western style food here.

> Cream cheese isn't popular in Europe either.

It actually originated in England and it's extremely popular in Germany. You can find multiple types even in Aldi (the cheapest supermarket with smallest selection in Germany).

I'm honestly curious on what experience you are basing your conclusions. It seems to me it's based on short trip tourism.

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#377

Post by codesushi42 »

ascar wrote: post #376
codesushi42 wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason cream cheese is not used is because they don't want it on sushi. You can find cheese on sandwiches and pizza in Japan pretty easily. Cream cheese isn't popular in Europe either.

What's your point in derailing and making wrong statements? Cream cheese goes well inside (not on top) of sushi, which is backed by it's popularity outside of Japan. Which was a reply to GP saying cheese doesn't "go" with Japanese cuisine. None of your replies make any counter argument relevant to that, because it has nothing to do with current usage, but with future possibilities. It might not be the first choice of…

- Four months is short trip tourism.

- Japanese people aren't ignorant. They don't want cream cheese on their sushi, or gobs of mayonnaise or whatever else you are accustomed to. The california rolls you enjoy are not the same as Japanese cuisine eaten by Japanese people living in Japan.

- Aldi supermarkets aren't really representative of Western European tastes. You can find American food anywhere in Europe if you look for it.

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#378

Post by jayalpha »

ToFab123 wrote: post #330

This is so awesome news. I see that in the local news this morning, that in my home country (Denmark), this free trade agreement is creating lots of news jobs with companies already announcing hundreds of new job. And this is just one day after the announcement. More of this to come in the next days and weeks.

Would you mind elaborating?

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#379

Post by kbutler »

FabHK wrote: post #369
zeroname wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where you got this idea, but the argument for comparative advantage has nothing to do with the redistribution of income, nor is there a claim of "fairness" towards each and every individual or interest group. To understand why comparative advantage is an advantage, you must consider the alternative: Economic protectionism. It results in inefficient allocation of labor, because everyone's job is protected…

> the argument for comparative advantage has nothing to do with the redistribution of income But it has. Comparative advantage shows you that the country as a whole can afford more with free trade than before. But one of the theoretical consequences of the Heckscher-Ohlin trade model [1] is factor price equalisation, ie in once country wages might fall while returns to capital increase. Inevitably, there are winners…

Redistribution is required for Pareto efficiency (improvement without making any individual worse off). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_efficiency

Free trade allows exchanges that make both involved parties better off, but possibly harms others (higher cost producers). This can be done without redistribution.

It is interesting that you suggest that existing producers deserve compensation. Why? Do they have some innate right to their previous business model or profession?

Sugar producers in the US have been protected for decades by trade policy that increases the costs for all sugar consumers in the US. I don't know that they deserve that protection but it would be cheaper to just compensate them at a decreasing rate to get them out of the business, rather than perpetually enforcing higher sugar prices.

Oops, make that centuries - the US sugar industry developed in part because of tariffs https://scholarworks.montana.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1/25... page 18 "Ballinger (1975) asserts that when the United States acquired the Louisiana Territory in 1803, the fledgling sugar industry there immediately benefited from tariff protection, hence spurring its development." Do they still deserve compensation if harmed by free trade? They've already been compensated by unfree trade...

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#380

Post by telchar »

gruez wrote: post #213
oh_sigh wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you even allowed to call them cheese? I thought they had to be labeled as a processed milk product or something.

They’re called “process cheese product”

Apparently that's the high end, the low end being "process American product slices". Not even allowed to use the word "cheese" in a name.
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