Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe electric cars will be the solution to the duck curve?
They are one of the four main reasons why I don’t worry about the duck curve.
What are the other three?
Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly
371–380 of 450 posts
Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly
#372Earlier quoted context omitted.
The only real benefit of electric cars is more environmentally friendly. Since the environment is a collective problem rather than an individual problem, the transition wouldn't ever happen without government intervention. Hence, I think the moment of inflection is entirely down to government policies, and very little down to consumer desires.
I could see that viewpoint if you've never driven electric, but I think ultimately it's just a better product. Quiet, quick acceleration, never visiting a stinky gas station (charging at home is so liberating), much cheaper and easier maintenance, etc. The counter points are quickly eroding and falling. Nissan did a great commercial at the launch of the Leaf [1] showing a world where a lot of our electric appliances…
Showing the Chevy Volt in that ad was a bit of a jab. The Volt can go pure electric and never touch its fuel tank.
Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly
#373Earlier quoted context omitted.
The only real benefit of electric cars is more environmentally friendly. Since the environment is a collective problem rather than an individual problem, the transition wouldn't ever happen without government intervention. Hence, I think the moment of inflection is entirely down to government policies, and very little down to consumer desires.
I could see that viewpoint if you've never driven electric, but I think ultimately it's just a better product. Quiet, quick acceleration, never visiting a stinky gas station (charging at home is so liberating), much cheaper and easier maintenance, etc. The counter points are quickly eroding and falling. Nissan did a great commercial at the launch of the Leaf [1] showing a world where a lot of our electric appliances…
On the maintenance point: I bought an electric lawnmower a few years ago not because of any environmental concerns but because I was tired of having to make a special trip to the gas station to fill gas cans, then keep special oil on hand, and then replace spark plugs, and then the head gasket cracked and I just threw it out. My electric mower needs to be plugged in, but there's no exhaust, no fumes, no oil or gas to worry about, fewer moving parts, easier to start, very light. It's just a ton more convenient.
While I don't own an electric car, any argument that there's no consumer benefit to electric car is just silly on its face. ICE engines need just so much maintenance in comparison.
Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly
#374Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cost of fueling - electricity is cheaper than gas. Lower cost of ownership - electric cars are mechanically much simpler than ICE cars, which means better reliability and less money spent for maintenance/repairs. Better performance - Electronically-controlled electric motors have much better, more controllable torque curves than even the best ICE. Not just a matter of "accelerates faster", but more torque available a…
> Cost of fueling - electricity is cheaper than gas. Nullified by the fact that charging stations are scarce AND that it takes a lot of time to finish a charge. People drive cars so that they can get somewhere faster. It does not help if they have to hunt around for a charging stations and have to wait an hour to get charged. We can consider the cost difference to be a concrete advantage, when and only when the infra…
>> Cost of fueling - electricity is cheaper than gas.
>Nullified by the fact that charging stations are scarce AND that it takes a lot of time to finish a charge. People drive cars so that they can get somewhere faster. It does not help if they have to hunt around for a charging stations and have to wait an hour to get charged.
> We can consider the cost difference to be a concrete advantage, when and only when the infra for electric charging is on par with a fuel refill.
You're really shifting the goalposts. It is much cheaper to drive electric if you can charge at home. It's true a significant number of people can't charge at home, but if they can, it's usually 25-35% of the cost of a gasoline car. I've owned BEVs for 6 years and have probably charged away from home 10 times or less and mostly it was just to get a better parking spot.
>> more controllable torque curves than even the best ICE
> Oh I am perfectly fine with the torque curve of an ICE. I am not racing on the roads, you know. With automatic transmissions, this is even less of an issue.
So because you don't think it's an improvement, then it's not an improvement for anyone?
If you've already decided there are no benefits to BEVs for you personally, then it doesn't matter what others say because it doesn't benefit you. Why bother asking for the benefits?
Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly
#375Earlier quoted context omitted.
I could see that viewpoint if you've never driven electric, but I think ultimately it's just a better product. Quiet, quick acceleration, never visiting a stinky gas station (charging at home is so liberating), much cheaper and easier maintenance, etc. The counter points are quickly eroding and falling. Nissan did a great commercial at the launch of the Leaf [1] showing a world where a lot of our electric appliances…
Showing the Chevy Volt in that ad was a bit of a jab. The Volt can go pure electric and never touch its fuel tank.
I agree, I think they should have taken the high road and tried to build the whole market of any vehicle with a plug instead of the underhanded jab against the volt. There are so many other cars they could have put in that spot. Maybe a Hummer?
Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly
#376Earlier quoted context omitted.
By that logic the Tesla cars would be losing all the races, but they does not - they win. Did you consider that your experience with ICE cars does not apply directly to BEV cars?
What are these track events that Teslas are winning? They're horrible track cars. A plain Jane 911 will walk all over them on a road course. https://www.quora.com/How-does-a-Tesla-perform-on-a-track https://insideevs.com/expected-tesla-model-s-fails-lap-nurbu... http://www.thedrive.com/news/5207/this-video-reminds-us-that... To be clear: I think the Model S is a fine, if overpriced, road car. I daily a LEAF and like…
A "plain Jane" $200,000 purpose-built track car will easily beat a $100,000 electric luxury car, that comes as a huge surprise to absolutely no one.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-model-s-p85d-drag-race...
Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly
#377Earlier quoted context omitted.
What are these track events that Teslas are winning? They're horrible track cars. A plain Jane 911 will walk all over them on a road course. https://www.quora.com/How-does-a-Tesla-perform-on-a-track https://insideevs.com/expected-tesla-model-s-fails-lap-nurbu... http://www.thedrive.com/news/5207/this-video-reminds-us-that... To be clear: I think the Model S is a fine, if overpriced, road car. I daily a LEAF and like…
A "plain Jane" $200,000 purpose-built track car will easily beat a $100,000 electric luxury car, that comes as a huge surprise to absolutely no one. https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-model-s-p85d-drag-race...
> A "plain Jane" $200,000 purpose-built track car will easily beat a $100,000 electric luxury car
A plain Jane 911 is neither $200K nor a purpose-built track car.
Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly
#378This day has already come, at least in China:
There are already 100 million (!) electro scooters in use in China: https://www.accessmagazine.org/fall-2010/electric-two-wheele... . This mega trend went pretty unnoticed in the West.
"Having lived in China for the last year it’s pretty much 99.8% ebikes. Petrol motorbikes don’t make an appearance except in very poor areas."
Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly
#379Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cost of fueling - electricity is cheaper than gas. Lower cost of ownership - electric cars are mechanically much simpler than ICE cars, which means better reliability and less money spent for maintenance/repairs. Better performance - Electronically-controlled electric motors have much better, more controllable torque curves than even the best ICE. Not just a matter of "accelerates faster", but more torque available a…
> Cost of fueling - electricity is cheaper than gas. Nullified by the fact that charging stations are scarce AND that it takes a lot of time to finish a charge. People drive cars so that they can get somewhere faster. It does not help if they have to hunt around for a charging stations and have to wait an hour to get charged. We can consider the cost difference to be a concrete advantage, when and only when the infra…
> Nullified by the fact that charging stations are scarce
No, a related disadvantage doesn't nullify the fact of an advantage. Yes, charging stations are scarce and it takes longer to charge. It still costs less to fuel the car.
> I don't think this is a given. Even though more complex, I think ICE cars of today are quite reliable enough.
Well, good, I guess? Your opinion on how reliable cars ought to be isn't the subject of discussion. For what it's worth, I agree that you think ICE cars are reliable enough.
> Are there any studies that compare both and say Electric cars are indeed more reliable than an average ICE car?
Probably not; in general a (far) less complex mechanism is going to be more reliable. Electric cars are new and doubtless suffer from the growing pains of a new technology. Teslas in particular are full of little fit and finish issues that result in a lot of warranty work. But hey, I'll give you this one. Improved electric car reliability is not a proven fact at this point. I can't see any way a mechanism with orders of magnitude fewer moving parts won't be more reliable once it matures, but maybe there's some sort of terrible unforeseen issue. Who knows?
> Oh I am perfectly fine with the torque curve of an ICE. I am not racing on the roads, you know. With automatic transmissions, this is even less of an issue.
I agree that you hold this opinion. Others do not. Doesn't change the fact that this is an advantage.
I'm not really interested in discussing this further; I suspect you're going to keep moving the goalposts. You should purchase the type of car that most closely fits your needs and wants.
Re: Electric Vehicles’ Day Will Come, and It Might Come Suddenly
#380They neglected a huge part of the coming electric vehicle picture: lightweight, slow-speed electric vehicles. Almost 60% of US car trips are 5 miles or shorter. (2017 ref: https://nhts.ornl.gov/tables09/ae/work/Job63697.html , 2009 ref: https://nhts.ornl.gov/tables09/fatcat/2009/vt_TRPMILES.html ) Scooters, e-bikes, and electric cargo bikes (not to mention the human-powered versions!) will soak up an enormous portion…
I’m starting a new job, my cycle commute will increase from just 6 km to 18 km (and a few more as we’re going to buy a home). This is on the edge of my fatigue anxiety so I’m considering an e-bike.
Not only is it considerably cheaper than a beater car due to tax and insurance costs it’s faster overall even with the European 25 km/h speed limit. The bus of course takes twice as long and costs around €1500 per year.
Talking to various dealers and reading online it’s crazy how many new models there are this year. Giant alone have 38 new models.