Canada legalises recreational cannabis use • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#371

Post by TillE » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 4:00 PM UTC

exDM69 wrote: post #271

3131s wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> vary wildly between countries Not really, name a European country where I won't be jailed for having even an ounce of cocaine? Portugal is as close as it gets to sensible drug policy, and they've only decriminalized (as opposed to legalized) small personal-use amounts. The only drugs that should be regulated are antibiotics :)

An ounce is quite a lot but there are several places in Europe where a small quantity of unidentified white powder on you will not cause consequences unless you're a suspected dealer or something. And you won't get searched in the first place unless you're being taken into custody (for some other offense) or suspected for being a danger to others or yourself. E.g. Berlin is very tolerant. So is Portugal. Helsinki wou…

Berlin was arresting people with any amount of weed in certain public parks just a couple years ago, because an awful coalition government thought Zero Tolerance would surely work this time.

Its laws are more or less identical to New York State's - decriminalized possession of small amounts of marijuana, everything else is extremely illegal - just with shorter prison sentences and perhaps slightly looser enforcement.

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#372

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 4:01 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #363

RankingMember wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correlation != causation. Your anecdote could just as well be about surfing (or anything really). I've known people who started surfing and got so into it that they started traveling in a van and talking about surfing all the time, not working or saving money. Should we ban surfboards to prevent this terrible fate? > On the macro-scale, cannabis and others drugs are a big factor that fuels France suburb separatism Do…

It's immensely frustrating when people deny any possible harm that cannabis can cause. We _know_ that cannabis can cause psychotic illness; that cannabis can surface an underlying illness that wouldn't have been a problem with cannabis use; that cannabis can make existing illness worse; that it can be addictive; that it can make violent people perpetrate acts of violence. Importantly, this denial is counter-productiv…

[deleted]

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#373

Post by spiralx » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 4:06 PM UTC

flukus wrote: post #273

rusk wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think many people right across the continent would probably have similar feelings. Many are "unhappy" with how the EU is presently being run but nobody would want to "leave". The confusion around Brexit emerges from just how poorly the referendum was run. It was a choice between "remain" which can only be a vote for the status quo (unsatisfactory for many) and "leave" which is open to so many interpretations as to…

I thought this was because Britain didn't have a constitution as such so the don't have actual referendums? > An actual binding referendum against a written constitution would have to provide actual wording; rather than just a single word. I don't disagree for any philosophical reason, but this is very easy to abuse for anyone that favors the status quo. The most notable example I can think of is the republic referen…

> I thought this was because Britain didn't have a constitution as such so the don't have actual referendums?

The UK does have a constitution, it's simply not codified into a single document. Parliamentary sovereignty means that Acts of Parliament are part of the constitution, and so any referendum's result cannot be binding, which may partly explain why they weren't seen as part of UK politics up until recently - there have only ever been three national referendums, one on EC membership in 1975, on changing the voting system in 2011, and leaving the EU in 2016.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_in_the_United_King...

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#374

Post by Afton » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 4:10 PM UTC

stanmancan wrote: post #329

schrectacular wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't there some friction here with regards to nationalized health care? Society at large will pay for the poor health decisions of individual citizens.

I’m honestly curious how many people don’t do drugs solely because it’s illegal? How many people are thinking “I’d love to try meth; if only it were legal!”

Related: I'd take steroids if I could do it legally under the supervision of an endocrinologist, with products that have all the audit-trails of modern pharmacology (rather than "Bob's basement grow juice"). But the alternative seems too risky to me, especially since it's illegal and the consequences of being caught in my case are quite severe.

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#375

Post by spiralx » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 4:10 PM UTC

stanmancan wrote: post #329

schrectacular wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't there some friction here with regards to nationalized health care? Society at large will pay for the poor health decisions of individual citizens.

I’m honestly curious how many people don’t do drugs solely because it’s illegal? How many people are thinking “I’d love to try meth; if only it were legal!”

Judging from places where decriminalisation has been introduced, there is very little overall change after a small bump immediately afterwards. As you say, most people who want to and aren't prevented from doing so by e.g. work requirements are already doing so given the prevalence of drugs.

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#376

Post by beat » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 4:12 PM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #360

sandworm101 wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>...talent and infrastructure to support weed sales. It is a plant, a crop like any other. As a practical matter it is no more difficult than farming apples or corn. (It actually grows wild over much of Ontario.) The only specialized infrastructure is that dictated by regulation. Sure, Canada does have a jump on building out the regulatory infrastructure, but that isn't something we can sell. We aren't going to be e…

Most plants lie in a group that are harvested differently to other plants. Is it like tea, where different leaves provide different grades, or do flowers and leaves and stalks get separated? Presumably the more woody parts will go to hemp-like products (clothing, paper, beer, whatever!). The industry around that exists already but will presumably be developed ahead of other countries if demand makes for a lot of 'was…

The valuable part is the flower. Plants need to be carefully groomed (preferably in a closed environment) to sex them immediately and kill any males, to prevent seeding. (Seeds are a sign of poor quality control.)

Stems, leaves, and trim are probably just composted, although I suppose leaves might be processed to extract oils.

I recently visited Colorado on vacation, and got to visit a few legal dispensaries with my pothead companions (I'm not, but they are). It was a remarkable experience. Everything is totally focused on quality, and product differentiation for the marijuana itself was all about the best possible product with particular desirable characteristics. With few exceptions, price was a flat rate of $220/oz across the state. So maximizing yield is not nearly as important as maximizing quality. This is a connoisseur market. There was also a strong market for edible products (cookies, candies), oils, and other extracts.

It's also mostly an indoor crop. When I was in Oak Creek, a tiny town in the mountains, my host pointed out four different "grow room" buildings, basically urban farming operations.

It was interesting to talk about it with my host's fiance, a retired cop from Detroit (who is a part-time local cop there now). He thinks it's great, and marijuana laws in most states are just wasteful and stupid.

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#377

Post by beat » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 4:15 PM UTC

hosh wrote: post #367

sandworm101 wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>...talent and infrastructure to support weed sales. It is a plant, a crop like any other. As a practical matter it is no more difficult than farming apples or corn. (It actually grows wild over much of Ontario.) The only specialized infrastructure is that dictated by regulation. Sure, Canada does have a jump on building out the regulatory infrastructure, but that isn't something we can sell. We aren't going to be e…

It is my understanding that Canada has world-class expertise in greenhouse cultivation of edible crops, including tomatoes. Many of the out-of-season crops, such as tomatoes available to the US comes from Canada (though here in Phoenix, much of that comes from Mexico). That expertise has also been exported, to people trying to set up greenhouses in Minnesota (US).

I used to be a member of a CSA (community supported agriculture, basically buying food direct from farmers) that was setting up a new greenhouse every year, mostly for tomatoes and cucumbers - popular crops that are vulnerable to the challenges of Minnesota weather.

As an aside, they also raise heirloom-variety turkeys. Minnesota is the #1 turkey state in the country, great area for it, and 99.9% of the turkey sold is a single breed. The heirloom breeds are rare (and delicious, and expensive) treats.

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#378

Post by toasterlovin » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 4:15 PM UTC

moistoreos wrote: post #318

Canada now has a huge head start in the West for business to develop legitimate markets that will have a strong hold for decades. I wonder how many U.S. businesses will move because of this. We all know where the money will be.

A) Cannabis is already legal in a bunch of states and there are tons of US based start ups in that space already.

B) Because cannabis is a controlled substance, Canadian companies will have no way to participate in local markets in other countries.

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#379

Post by TheBeardKing » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 4:16 PM UTC

moistoreos wrote: post #318

Canada now has a huge head start in the West for business to develop legitimate markets that will have a strong hold for decades. I wonder how many U.S. businesses will move because of this. We all know where the money will be.

By legitimate do you mean able to bank? Because that's the only real drawback I see in the legalized states. And it doesn't seem to be that big an issue worth losing your US consumer base over, since I assume no way in hell can they export to legal states.

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#380

Post by beat » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 4:22 PM UTC

mikec3010 wrote: post #356

refurb wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California, where marijuana is now legal since last year, has a greater population than all of Canada. Related to that, each Canadian province has the ability to further regulate marijuana (within guidelines). Thus, there isn't one Canadian market, but a bunch of smaller markets.

I wonder about climate too. CA has way better weather to grow almost anything as evidenced by it's agriculture industry. I would expect Canada's grow season to be much shorter. And obv weed grows well under grow lights, but that costs money so I would expect California to have major economic advantage.

It's much easier to get quality control in a closed environment than outdoors. And legal marijuana is driven strongly by quality as a market force. Illegal marijuana, on the other hand, is more about volume than quality, particularly when you consider interdiction-based losses of entire crops or shipments. So outdoors makes a lot of sense.