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I'm not a Woman in Tech

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Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#371

Post by ahartman00 »

michaelscott wrote: post #142
emsy wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently watched an answer on this by Steven Pinker as to why this "re-segregation" is happening. He basically says that legitimate movements don't stop as soon as they've reached their goal and at that point, they start to become regressive. Interestingly he provides an example that hasn't to do with any ism: child protection. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFnP5UUXuTk

My personal thought on this is that those who devote themselves to these movements internalise them in such a way that the movements define their identity. Once the goal of the movement is achieved, that part of their identity necessarily needs to disappear and because this is such a difficult thing to do they simply shift the movement's goalposts to keep their internal purpose alive (usually toward a regressive poin…

I think this is part of it. I also think that humans are essentially greedy when it comes to progress. I am fortunate to have a nearly limitless supply of clean water, at nearly any temperature I want. Yet I still curse the shower for taking a minute or so to warm up. It just is never good enough, moving the goalposts as you say.

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#372

Post by drspacemonkey »

imjlu wrote: post #235
djsumdog wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It kinda makes me thing of the "Millennials Don't Exist" talk by Adam Conover. He talks about how generational terms are just made up by authors who want to get rich and they're almost always condescending (those entitled baby boomers, those lazy millennials, those gen x-ers) and how people don't liked to be talked down to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HFwok9SlQQ&t=12s Are millennials attached do their cellphones…

It's almost as if segregation adds unnecessary constraints to the lives of the people involved. You'd think people would have figured this out centuries ago, yet we still self-segregate and divide ourselves wherever possible. Shame.

Tribalism seems to be encoded in the genes of every primate species on the planet, so it's not that surprising. In our past, every time a line dividing tribes was erased, we drew a different line.

This is just speculation on my part, but the only way we'll achieve cohesion as a species is if/when we encounter intelligent alien life. We'll still be tribal, but at an interplanetary level.

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#373

Post by luord »

She's smart, I'm glad she works in tech. We need more people in the field, I'm hoping for more like her.[1]

[1] This is not an attempt at disparaging people already in the field.

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#374

Post by Dove »

andrewmutz wrote: post #277
matt_wulfeck wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because if I learned anything, anything you say can and most likely probably will be used against you. Even right now, writing on a niche message board using a fake name, I'm hesitant to voice my honest opinions about anything related to race or gender or other topic like that. it's like there's an army of internet people waiting for you to mess up and will punish you with controversy and/or honestly try and get yo…

I agree 100%. There is no serious dialog on complex issues like this, because if something you say gets misunderstood, your career is in jeopardy.

That's a great loss.

Freedom and rights are wonderful things. But as I see them used to justify censorship, I can't help but think that's exactly what's happening: they're being used.

I don't know about you, but I rather resent being used, and I won't have it.

We need our serious dialogue. We are undertaking a revolutionary project, realigning the way the sexes relate. The changes of the last century have been enormous. It is arrogance and folly to think that the monotone wisdom of one political perspective is all we need to guide us through such a storm. We need diversity and respect for opposing opinions. We need to gather wisdom from all experiences and backgrounds, and build something excellent.

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#375

Post by hyperliner »

This reminds me of a special award that some folks that were part of a [special ethnic group] wanted me to compete for. It was "[special ethnic group] Engineer of the Year Award 20xx".

My boss (who was not part of [special ethnic group]) sent me an email saying "Hey, there is this award thing that HR is doing and they say since you are of [special ethnicity] they want you to participate in."

My reply was a Shermanesque statement to my boss, basically saying I was not interested but to tell HR that I would be happy to run for "Engineer of the Year Award 20xx." My boss didn't care much but told me that HR said they did not have that award, and no answer as to why they didn't. At least they did not tell us that the award existed but I was not allowed to participate!

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#376

Post by jd75 »

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #203
treehau5 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm left believing that my only choice is to have no opinion. I learned this lesson a long time ago from the role models in my life that ended up getting burned because of having a differing viewpoint from whatever societal winds were blowing. I, and I realize probably cynically, now only elect to share, post, tweet, or whatnot whatever only can positively benefit my "brand". Sometimes I have to act like my own PR…

> because if I learned anything, anything you say can and most likely probably will be used against you. Even right now, writing on a niche message board using a fake name, I'm hesitant to voice my honest opinions about anything related to race or gender or other topic like that. it's like there's an army of internet people waiting for you to mess up and will punish you with controversy and/or honestly try and get yo…

> it's like there's an army of internet people waiting for you to mess up and will punish you with controversy and/or honestly try and get you fired.

It sounds like you can relate to existing as a person who is different in tech, then.

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#377

Post by knob »

saiya-jin wrote: post #28
serg_chernata wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watching from the sidelines as a white male, I have to say that I find these kinds of situations so confusing. Some people want these differences to be highlighted, while others like yourself want the complete opposite. I'm left believing that my only choice is to have no opinion. Though I lean towards your stance across the board.

I can't agree more - coming from former east-bloc european environment where women had to work same as men and there was no racism (simply because there were only white people for last 2000 years on this place), both of what you mention is distant issue (but clearly some other places are/were riddled with it). I already treat women as equal (actually more), same goes to my LBGT friends and colleagues, and same for al…

>I already treat women as equal (actually more)

I don't think that word means what you think.

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#378

Post by jd75 »

root_axis wrote: post #143
sotojuan wrote: post #17

There's an interesting dichotomy on the "women in tech" question between "SV tech" and non-SV tech. I briefly worked at a tech company making oil industry software in .NET in a Houston suburb. Not trendy, cubicles, but they paid fine (and unlike my current job the office was quiet). I quickly noticed that half of my coworkers were not only women, but a lot were people of color and older (I actually think I was the on…

I think you make an excellent point here. The standards of professionalism have shifted to accommodate the "startup culture" ethos which tends to favor a "fun and productive" office environment instead of the traditional "professional and productive" office environment. This is the result of individuals from younger generations building companies with an idealistic vision of what a company can be. They imagine they w…

Where "fun" is defined by people who got funding. http://fortune.com/2017/03/13/female-founders-venture-capita...

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#379

Post by banned1 »

This reminds me of a special award that some folks that were part of a [special ethnic group] wanted me to compete for. It was "[special ethnic group] Engineer of the Year Award 20xx".

My boss (who was not part of [special ethnic group]) sent me an email saying "Hey, there is this award thing that HR is doing and they say since you are of [special ethnicity] they want you to participate in."

My reply was a Shermanesque statement to my boss, basically saying I was not interested but to tell HR that I would be happy to run for "Engineer of the Year Award 20xx." My boss didn't care much but told me that HR said they did not have that award, and no answer as to why they didn't. At least they did not tell us that the award existed but I was not allowed to participate!

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#380

Post by mistermann »

monocasa wrote: post #332
mistermann wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And define widespread? Well, was this an isolated incident or not? Better yet, let's use your prior definition: > If someone refuses me, the white straight male, the chance to buy something, I go somewhere else. That's not the case for some minorities however. If everyone won't provide wedding services for you, or everyone won't let you attend a class, or everyone won't sell you food, you can't live your life. Comm…

> Well, was this an isolated incident or not? An event that had the implicit backing of the school administration sent a widespread message. Lynching in the wasn't 'widespread', but it's message was. According to this: http://time.com/3703386/jim-crow-lynchings Georgia had 586 total lynchings from 1877 until 1950. That's about 1 per county per generation. > your prior definition: Check usernames.

> An event that had the implicit backing of the school administration sent a widespread message.

If you check the thread you'll clearly see my interest wasn't whether discrimination happens at all, it's whether it is to the point of being literally ostracized, as was stated.

>> Could you name a two or three so we have some idea what you're talking about?

> sure..

Perhaps don't impersonate other people if you don't want to be mistaken for someone else.

Then again, I suppose by now I should know better than to expect reasonable discussion in threads such as these.

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