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A day without JavaScript

sonniesedge.co.uk

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Re: A day without JavaScript

#371

Post by dang »

user15672 wrote: post #272
linkmotif wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So easy to write this in a comment but none of this is true. Twitter is not a text based feed. If it was, people would still expect it to be iteractive w/o full page reloads. Same goes for all your examples. DHTML happened, and for a reason. It's not going to unhappen.

Wow...just... wow ! Look, I don't want to be mean, I understand you believe what you're saying, but, really, just no . You really do not understand how the things you're talking about work. For your own sake, go learn some more before jumping into comment here.

Please don't post unsubstantive personal attacks (which this is) to HN. If you know more than someone else, teach them; then we all learn. If you don't want to do that or don't have time, that's fine, but then please just don't post anything.

Commenting just to condescend about how ignorant someone is, instead of helping them, is lame.

Re: A day without JavaScript

#372

Post by dang »

che_shirecat wrote: post #233
throwaway47861 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misspelled "good bean-counting". Good engineering requires you to cover for everything you can. Case in point: car seatbelts and airbags. Most people don't crash, right? But you aren't seeing the car manufacturers remove seatbelts and airbags.

what a ludicrous analogy. engineering is an applied science, not a purely theoretical one where you can remove the human impact of your decisions from the equation. comments like this are a prime example of why engineers need to take more liberal arts classes

I agree with you about liberal arts and have the college transcripts to prove it. Unfortunately, your HN comments have been frequently uncivil and/or unsubstantive. Would you please not post like that? It's just what we're trying to avoid here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

Re: A day without JavaScript

#373

Post by SquareWheel »

kccqzy wrote: post #357
SquareWheel wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you prefer that Hacker News reloaded the page every time you voted on a comment?

Even without JS, there are tricks to make the upvote button work without refreshing the page. HN used to do this, not sure if it still does.

Do you have a reference to any of those tricks? Sounds interesting.

Re: A day without JavaScript

#374

Post by onli »

kbenson wrote: post #344
onli wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually learned that as a CS student.

If it was actually part of the curriculum I sure hope that it was in some design centered elective class. IMO if your CS degree spent time teaching that as part of the core curriculum, they missed an opportunity to put more Math, PL theory, and interesting algorithms in there, because there's more than can be sanely covered in any one curriculum. Since it's accessibility based, it's more laudable than teaching CS stu…

It's some years now, and there were at least two courses in which it could have been. The one was elected, HCI. The other was not, it was an introduction into graphics and audio, and since you need to understand basics of human perception to understand compression in that area (jpg, mp3), they talked about stuff like that.

A good CS degree definitely has the space to teach some basics in that area. To mention Gestaltgesetze, to explain human perception a bit, and give an introduction into usability. You do not get a useful developer in the end otherwise

Re: A day without JavaScript

#375

Post by _ao789 »

spiderfarmer wrote: post #8

One of my clients loads a 4.5 Mb bower.js (including Angular with a lot of components and jQuery), they also include an extra jQuery script, a full jQuery UI and several other scripts on each pageload . Nothing is minimized. The bower file alone has 300k in comments. The CSS file is also nearly 1 Mb. It's just a simple website with some forms. They have 2 developers working on the site, a scrum master, a project mana…

I think the best tool for this job in this specific scenario is simply "rm -rf. /"

Re: A day without JavaScript

#376

Post by kbenson »

onli wrote: post #374
kbenson wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was actually part of the curriculum I sure hope that it was in some design centered elective class. IMO if your CS degree spent time teaching that as part of the core curriculum, they missed an opportunity to put more Math, PL theory, and interesting algorithms in there, because there's more than can be sanely covered in any one curriculum. Since it's accessibility based, it's more laudable than teaching CS stu…

It's some years now, and there were at least two courses in which it could have been. The one was elected, HCI. The other was not, it was an introduction into graphics and audio, and since you need to understand basics of human perception to understand compression in that area (jpg, mp3), they talked about stuff like that. A good CS degree definitely has the space to teach some basics in that area. To mention Gestalt…

> You do not get a useful developer in the end otherwise

Not all developers do stuff with UI, and of those that do not all do anything with a UI that is actually graphical beyond a terminal.

> since you need to understand basics of human perception to understand compression in that area (jpg, mp3), they talked about stuff like that.

That is a good reason to teach it, and counters my overly assertive original comment.

Re: A day without JavaScript

#377

Post by sametmax »

madeofpalk wrote: post #360
sametmax wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Except you need to do Ajax and fetch doesn't cut it. So new lib. And manipulate the dom with something better then the browser API or you loose your mind. So new lib. Then normalize browser events. Oh wait, you can do that manually. But you are writing a new lib. Eventually the code will grow to be the size of jQuery anyway. Only not as well tested, documented and cached.

> Except you need to do Ajax and fetch doesn't cut it curious as to why you think this? fetch is pretty convenient to use. We created our own wrappers around it, but that basically just consists of ajax = (url) => fetch(url).then(res => res.json())

Exactly, you had to write a wrapper. And the next project will do so. And if you want to save time, and improve reliability, you'll test it, and write doc for the 3rd. And the new team member.

Or you can use the few ko of jQuery.

Re: A day without JavaScript

#379

Post by perilunar »

SquareWheel wrote: post #240
syrrim wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non js users aren't expecting the website to work perfectly without scripts on. The bare minimum they ask for is that the site can be read without using scripts. Obviously it would be nice if all the moving components didn't need scripts either, but most people can accept that this is too much work.

Depending on the site, even just reading may be problematic. Imagine a webapp where all data is requested and sent as small JSON updates. This is faster and it's less data than full page copies, and can be more targeted to that user. To build this feature for the tiny fraction of non-JS users, you're looking at duplicating all of this functionality on the server. This greatly increases dev time and complexity of the…

Websites shouldn't break if you disable CSS - just look worse. The text should still be perfectly readable and images viewable.

Re: A day without JavaScript

#380

Post by b0rsuk »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #321

Mozilla is partly to blame here by taking away the "Disable Javascript" control, which effectively told websites they could go crazy with JS and ignore the "no-JS" users. What might be helpful now is something like a MAX-JS-BYTES=n header that tells site owners that the useragent will ignore any JS beyond the first n bytes on the page, and will not request more once that limit is reached. (I know this is a terrible i…

Uh oh, but that would mean frontend developers have to reason about their resource usage, and have a vague idea how many programs they are even using! Javascript usage is simply out of control, things load themselves automagically, asynchronously, unpredictably.
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