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Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

latimes.com

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Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#371

Post by anigbrowl »

emodendroket wrote: post #186
soup10 wrote: post #146

giving criminals rights is a politically toxic because of religious doctrine: the point of jail is not to learn, but to suffer. the idea is if you flagrantly disrespect god(aka the power structure of the society you live in), you must suffer as an example to others. Its not an ideal system, but there's a certain sensibility to it that stabilizes society. If people saw those that go to jail, come out better persons. T…

What "religious doctrine" would that be?

Dominionism, which is derived from Calvinism and which enjoys significant popularity in the US. There are some extremely militant and aggressive strains of Christianity out there. Just because you're not familiar with them doesn't mean they only have a few adherents.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#372

Post by anigbrowl »

emodendroket wrote: post #259
grasshopperpurp wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America's brand of Christianity doesn't care about Jesus. It cares about the wrath of the Old Testament and the rules of Paul.

America does not have one single brand of Christianity but countless sects with views and member demographics that differ significantly.

Yes, and a lot of these sects are extremely authoritarian and have significant membership.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#373

Post by anigbrowl »

schalab wrote: post #91
FullMtlAlcoholc wrote: post #14

Think about that for a second...$75K/yr for abhorrent, yet improving conditions and you'll come to the correct conclusion that contractors are absolutely fleecing not only the p̶r̶i̶s̶o̶n̶s̶ tax payers, but the prisoners themselves. Half a lifetime ago, I had to spend a weekend in jail while visiting a friend in California (accused of theft by a drunk lady who couldn't find her credit cards and fingered me instead of…

You are blaming unethical people for profiting from a flawed system. I would say fixing the system is a easier problem, then fixing humanity as a whole. For instance, what are the consequences for the mid level government bureaucrat who accepted the 7$ a tube toothpaste contract? It is obviously a flagrant violation with a paper trail. Even if it is revealed he gets a fully paid vacation every year from the bidding c…

You are blaming unethical people for profiting from a flawed system

Yes, and? Are unethical people somehow immune from blame for their decision to act unethically? Just because you see an opportunity for profit does not mean you are compelled to take it. That is, after all, the whole basis for incarceration in the first place, otherwise bank robbers would go free on the basis that once they realized how easy it was to rob a bank, they were unable to stop themselves.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#374

Post by anigbrowl »

ironarm wrote: post #330
FullMtlAlcoholc wrote: post #14

Think about that for a second...$75K/yr for abhorrent, yet improving conditions and you'll come to the correct conclusion that contractors are absolutely fleecing not only the p̶r̶i̶s̶o̶n̶s̶ tax payers, but the prisoners themselves. Half a lifetime ago, I had to spend a weekend in jail while visiting a friend in California (accused of theft by a drunk lady who couldn't find her credit cards and fingered me instead of…

Just a heads up. The Bob Barker company is not run by the former Price is Right host. AFAIK he's never had anything to do with the company. Just the same name. Oddly, this company which has been in existence for 20+ years fleecing correctional facilities still doesn't have a wikipedia page, and little is known about them. Would somebody please fix this?

You seem ideally positioned to make a start on this, as you certainly know more about it than I do.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#375

Post by lordlimecat »

enknamel wrote: post #347
cubano wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the risk of being boorish about the subject... I was recently released from Las Vegas County Jail (CCDC) where all sentenced inmates, myself included, are forced , by state law, to "work" in some manner in the jail. In this case, work consisted of 11-hour shifts, 6 days a week, of ultra back-breaking kitchen work. We were not even allowed to have water cups anywhere outside the break room. They actually yelled fas…

I think I need to one up your boorishness. I don't think you are likely to break the law again right? That sounds like an effective correctional system. Sure it sucked. But jail/prison should suck.

Prison should be run by the state to accomplish its aims (whether rehabilitative or retributive). Outsourcing it and attaching financial gain to it just encourages abuse.

Certainly they could have whipped him daily and that too would have discouraged future lawbreaking but at some point we have to ask "is this justice or abusive?"

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#376

Post by lordlimecat »

sedachv wrote: post #326
TP4Cornholio wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to believe it costs so much if they're getting that much free labor. I would think they'd at least break even.

Private prison contracts are structured to basically provide taxpayer-subsidized slave labor.[1][2] It is just another Reagan-Thatcher era privatization scam. [1] http://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2013/09/private-pri... [2] http://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2015/06/private-pri...

At some point blaming administrations 30 years ago for practices continued by subsequent administrations becomes deeply dishonest.

California for instance (referenced multiple times here) has had many governors since the Reagan days and could have ended the practice on a state level, and at a federal level the pendulum has swung to both sides on multiple occasions. Any of these administrations could have made it a priority, but did not.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#377

Post by anigbrowl »

gambiting wrote: post #31
FullMtlAlcoholc wrote: post #14

Think about that for a second...$75K/yr for abhorrent, yet improving conditions and you'll come to the correct conclusion that contractors are absolutely fleecing not only the p̶r̶i̶s̶o̶n̶s̶ tax payers, but the prisoners themselves. Half a lifetime ago, I had to spend a weekend in jail while visiting a friend in California (accused of theft by a drunk lady who couldn't find her credit cards and fingered me instead of…

Does the US court system not refund travel cost? Over here you can get full refund of travel cost if you are summoned to court(within reason - if you travel first class you will only get price of a normal ticket back).

LOL no - not laughing at you, but laughing so as not to cry at the injustice. The US approach to this issue would be that you should spend more money suing the person who made the false accusation against you.

Although it's a little dense, a really good book on American legal culture is Adversarial Legalism by robert Kagan. Culturally the US is absolutely obsessed with property rights and the exhaustive accounting for them has provided fertile soil for a whole forest of complex litigation practices.

Many people would rather spent $10,000 on fighting a court case than pay $500 that they felt was unjustly billed to them. I once worked for a guy who got in a dispute with someone he had hired over ownership of the work product - he had not paid the bill for the photography and so the photographer was sitting on the footage. He took the photographer to small claims court; the court basically said 'meh, pay him what you owe and you, photographer, hand over the footage when he does.' We went outside and my erstwhile boss said 'well I showed him! that's the last time someone sues ME!' I literally walked away on the spot and never returned any of his calls even though he owed me some money; for my own sanity and safety I can not be around someone with that level of cognitive dissonance. I liked the guy, a lot, but he was literally editing reality in his head to fit his feelings from moment to moment. That sort of person is dangerous.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#378

Post by bighi »

enknamel wrote: post #356
GuiA wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Someone, whom you've never spoken to before, shares a personal story about their treatment in prison, and your reaction is "well you deserved it, treats you right". That's a fairly uncouth attitude to have towards one of your hacker peers.

Well no that's not my reaction. You shouldn't jump to conclusions that you want to exist. He had a bad time in jail. He is now unlikely to break the law again, right? But maybe I'm wrong. Given his other comments it sounds like he's been in jail/prison more than once.

People are also unlikely to break the law again if they have an ok time in jail (it's never going to be good) while learning productive skills and being reintegrated into society without prejudice.

I wouldn't be glad someone had a bad time in their life.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#379

Post by bighi »

wonderous wrote: post #68
csmark wrote: post #60

The USA has ~5% of the world's population but 22% of the world's prisoners. Financial profiting from prisoners: Prison Labor - paid $0.93-0.16/hr California Prisons didn't want to release prisoners because they would loose cheap labor..Courts said they had to: https://thinkprogress.org/california-tells-court-it-cant-rel... 30% of California forest firefighters are prisoners .. The state argued against parole credit f…

"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." Legally speaking seems like in the US that prisoners are slaves. SOURCE: https://www.loc.gov/rr/program/bib/ourdocs/13thamendment.htm...

Well, it's not like the justice system in the US cares for the constitution. Or even the laws.

Re: Housing a prisoner in California costs more than a year at Harvard

#380

Post by cubano »

opo wrote: post #359
cubano wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I most definitely did not make a mistake. Yes CCDC aka Clark County Detention Center (aka Las Vegas County Jail) is a jail in downtown Las Vegas where I did my kitchen slave labor recently on a 90-day sentence for basically jaywalking. If I were to be sentenced for more then a year, I would have been sent to a prison somewhere in the boonies of Nevada away from Vegas. The OP discussed a "3-year jail sentence", and…

>... on a 90-day sentence for basically jaywalking. Can you elaborate?

Sure.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14017760

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