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George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

electrek.co

371–380 of 498 posts

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#371
post #20

I find it interesting that he was on This Week in Startups only a few weeks ago calling every company he found unconvincing "losers" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zy_07g2IrM Maybe they're all losers and you're a winner, but perhaps being an elite hax0r isn't all that's needed to go to market... If you can't reply to a regulator letter, how are you going to deal with supply chain or cash flow issues? Bad reviews in…

[deleted]

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#372

He's currently throwing a temper tantrum on Twitter, and all because the NHTSA wanted to ask him a few questions about the product (you can see it here: https://www.scribd.com/document/329218929/2016-10-27-Special... ). Like, how dare the government try to have basic standards for multi-ton hunks of metal hurtling down the highway without human input. I've been trying to convince people lately that Silicon Valley isn…

It's the government that's stifling innovation by burying it with so called regulations to the benefit of the monolithic automotive industry. His follow up tweets imply he's moving on to China, since they're less likely to be a major hamper of innovation. And we wonder why the United States' influence is in decline...

> China [...] less likely to be a major hamper of innovation

Another way to look at it: western foreigner looks to beta test a product with the lives of Chinese citizens. I'm not sure how well that's going to go over.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#373
post #20

I find it interesting that he was on This Week in Startups only a few weeks ago calling every company he found unconvincing "losers" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zy_07g2IrM Maybe they're all losers and you're a winner, but perhaps being an elite hax0r isn't all that's needed to go to market... If you can't reply to a regulator letter, how are you going to deal with supply chain or cash flow issues? Bad reviews in…

And speaking of elections. Using the term "losers" sure reminds me of someone...

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#374

The comments in this thread make me realize that there is a large amount of HN readers who have never had to deal with the government. Yes, the penalty is scary looking, but it is par for the course. You don't get exposed to it if you are doing amateur/freelance/e-commerce. As soon as you touch critical national infrastructure (Telcom, NTSB, Healthcare, finance) then you have to deal with the government, which never…

I feel like another part missing in the comments here is that most US regulations allow an individual pretty extensive free reign when it comes to risky ventures (see experimental aircrafts, make your own guns, electronic devices and a couple others). The regulation hammer really kicks in once you start trying to market it to other people, or 'what are you actually selling to people.'

Yea I totally agree with you here. If he hadn't said he was selling this product and branded it so, he most definitely would have some interesting arguments under most of these regulations and verbiage in the letter. What happens if I install a little motor that controls my own pedals and steering wheel? What if I blogged about it? What if I tried to sell it? I think there were a lot of poor decisions made by hotz

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#375

He's currently throwing a temper tantrum on Twitter, and all because the NHTSA wanted to ask him a few questions about the product (you can see it here: https://www.scribd.com/document/329218929/2016-10-27-Special... ). Like, how dare the government try to have basic standards for multi-ton hunks of metal hurtling down the highway without human input. I've been trying to convince people lately that Silicon Valley isn…

Holtz's Twitter rant is at [1]. Cruise Automation was very lucky to be acquired by GM before they got a similar letter. Similarly, Otto being acquired by Uber. They were both proposing to sell similar add-on systems. Their valuations would have been much lower after receiving such letters. NHTSA has it right. "It is insufficient to assert, as you do, that 'your product does not remove any of the driver responsibiliti…

Are you sure that they didn't get similar letters? If Tesla or others got a letter like this they wouldn't have publicized it, they would've just actually answered it. There's no way in my mind that Tesla didn't talk to regulators about their stuff at all.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#376
post #102

He's currently throwing a temper tantrum on Twitter, and all because the NHTSA wanted to ask him a few questions about the product (you can see it here: https://www.scribd.com/document/329218929/2016-10-27-Special... ). Like, how dare the government try to have basic standards for multi-ton hunks of metal hurtling down the highway without human input. I've been trying to convince people lately that Silicon Valley isn…

Exactly. The NHTSA memo seems extremely reasonable to me. If you're going to put to market a product where the smallest malfunction could easily kill many people (both those using your product and those around them), answering a couple regulation questions seems like a small hurdle to pass. Nothing here is saying "we want to shut you down", it's saying "we want to make sure you pass the most basic safety standards".…

> That's an obvious part of a government's duty to keep it's citizens safe.

Which article of the Constitution is that? I don't seem to recall it.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And bribery

Bribery to overlook certain numbers and results perhaps , but I think it'd be a unlikely to hear that the NHTSA just completely skipped on all regulatory checks entirely, which is what geohot wants.

I meant it more in the sense of bribery to get the regulators to squeeze the little guys as they always do. Big companies love regulation because it kills their competition and lets them progress at their glacial and expensive pace.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#378
post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He chose the launch date without making sure he was legal first.

Do I have to check with every relevant government agency for permission every time I do something? If an endeavor not specifically outlawed, it should be presumed legal.

If the endeavor is selling a product for use in a highly regulated industry where the failure case is death, then of course you have to work with regulatory agencies. It's not like the automotive industry is a mysterious minefield hidden in uncharted territory.

If he couldn't answer these very basic questions 2 months away from shipping these things, WTF is he even doing. If he hadn't proactively initiated communications with NHTSA long before now, WTF is he even doing. These are all excruciatingly, painfully obvious things to do, and the fact that it never occurred to him to do them brings into question his judgement about pretty much everything, from technical issues to basic life choices. At this point I don't think I'd trust this guy to mow my lawn, much less develop autonomous vehicle software. His reaction to all of this and how he deals with adversity is just as revealing about his competence as everything he's done so far.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually even the $21k fine should be nothing if he got $3M in venture capital. What's questionable is whether somebody can build safely an almost-self-driving car without a good team and with many years of experience in the field.

$21K per day. Four months to consume $3M entirely.

The fine was up to $21k per day subject to a maximum of $105k

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#380
post #376
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The NHTSA memo seems extremely reasonable to me. If you're going to put to market a product where the smallest malfunction could easily kill many people (both those using your product and those around them), answering a couple regulation questions seems like a small hurdle to pass. Nothing here is saying "we want to shut you down", it's saying "we want to make sure you pass the most basic safety standards".…

> That's an obvious part of a government's duty to keep it's citizens safe. Which article of the Constitution is that? I don't seem to recall it.

The US government is not the only government.
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