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All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

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Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#371

Post by annerajb »

rasz_pl wrote: post #182
11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #7

> Teslas with new hardware will temporarily lack certain features currently available on Teslas with first-generation Autopilot hardware, including some standard safety features such as automatic emergency breaking, collision warning, lane holding and active cruise control. Not sure what to make of this. New buyers are getting less than current owners now, but expected to get much more later? I can't think of a prece…

Its not marketing decision, MobilEye dropped them, this is Teslas emergency plan.

They been working on this before mobile eye dropped them. Around a year ago a car with this exact setup of cameras ( using webcams) was spotted charging.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#372

Post by dagw »

doikor wrote: post #367
teebot wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if any amount of data collection and model refinement will allow self driving in ALL situations. We always see self driving demos in California on very large roads, I'd like to see one in a small crowded street of Napoli or on a crossroad in Ho-Chi Minh.

It will be a long time before Teslas can drive on dirt roads or roads covered in snow. But most daily driving happens on pavement either on the highway or in the city. Both of which it already handles quite well and will just get better.

The reason most people can handle driving on shitty dirt roads, in snow and other "uncommon" situations is because they've first logged thousands of hours of practice driving under more normal conditions. Remove that experience and routine and why would you expect them to have any idea what to do in those tricky situations where the AI fails on them?

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#373

Post by varjag »

rasz_pl wrote: post #175
toomuchtodo wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But not being able to USE your car for some things? That just screams easy headlines and it's a reason I might not get a Tesla in the future. Its your car. It's Tesla software. You don't own it, just like you don't own any of the other commercial software you use. I can't really find fault in it; they deserve the lion's share of the revenue (not Uber, Lyft, or you) if you put the vehicle into their shared rideshari…

Actually you DO own it in EU, and can do whatever you like with it (borrow, sell).

..but not rideshare on autopilot.

It's not unprecedented to have severe restrictions on software in EU. E.g. you can't use le Windows you legally obtained in France on two PCs simultaneously. Some vendors charge per-CPU/core licenses, some network software (e.g. certain PABX) charge even by the number of connected endpoints.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#374

Post by varjag »

PacketPaul wrote: post #69
CamperBob2 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's great that they're taking the big risks needed to move the industry forward, and not letting the lawyers run the company. But some of the risks they're taking are just completely stupid and unnecessary, such as calling their assisted cruise control "Autopilot." That's like waving the proverbial cape at the proverbial bull.

Pilot here. Airplanes have autopilot. While on autopilot you are still expected to be monitoring the flight and take control at a moments notice. Autopilot does not allow the pilot to take a nap or go in the back and party with the flight attendants. Autopilot is the correct term. I'm tired of always having to cater to the lowest common denominator.

If you win this war on colloquial use, can you fix hacker vs cracker thing next?

Unfortunately fighting how the words end up used is pretty hopeless.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#375

Post by agumonkey »

danmaz74 wrote: post #232
agumonkey wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thinking Google was screaming for more opportunities to acquire and test data. Had to be satisfied with a few cars and a small area shared with other companies. Tesla is making its own jackpot here.

The big difference is that Google's car are actually self-driving themselves. Tesla's cars will collect a lot of data, but about human driving. The actual automated driving software will have to be tested separately.

True, but my point was more a scaling factor. Google can crank N amount of data with its small fleet, Tesla will be able to reach 10^5 N soon. If they're able to process it properly they may pass Google tests quickly.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#376

Post by deanCommie »

sangnoir wrote: post #265
djsumdog wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most interesting thing about self-driving vehicles is that there is a legitimate reason people should never be able to modify the firmware on their vehicles. The risks would be very high. There is also the entire liability and planed obsolescent issues not being dealt with. Will Tesla support these cars forever? Will 10 year old models still get software updates?

> The most interesting thing about self-driving vehicles is that there is a legitimate reason people should never be able to modify the firmware on their vehicles People can already modify their car hardware in dangerous ways, yet no one is welding the hood shut. You may weld spikes on your car to keep prying eyes away if you wish, but when you inevitably impale someone, Ford will not be liable. Why should software b…

Sorry, there is a fundamental difference with modification when you get into software, server-based logic, and machine learning.

It's a bit like when people used to modding their own hardware tools encounter a GPU or a RAM card that won't fit into a PCI slot, so they "cut it to fit", and then are surprised it doesn't work.

When you modify a car physically with spikes or to make more engine noise, or to have looser suspension you are dealing with isolated newtonian environments.

When you tweak software that involves massive machine learned models, you can cause absolutely unpredictable horrific consequences. There are good reasons to restrict this.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#377

Post by 2T1Qka0rEiPr »

flexie wrote: post #361
VeejayRampay wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA is a big country with a lot of variety though. Different timezones, climates, terrain. It does provide some coverage I would think.

And they do drive Teslas outside the US as well. And should there be places, terrains, urban conditions etc. that Tesla doesn't cover, they will see it and can hire a number of chauffeurs to drive around there. Even if they hired 1,000 drivers to gather data in certain geographical areas at certain hours or weather conditions that they lacked input from it would be a drop in the ocean compared with the cost other car…

There was a good Freakonomics podcast (http://bit.ly/2dQNPBh) a couple of years ago which looked at why Norway has so many Teslas. Road conditions would be pretty different to California.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#378

Post by Matthias247 »

Thimothy wrote: post #276
luma wrote: post #91

I think what people are missing here is an understanding of how these systems are tested and deployed at scale. While I have no involvement with Tesla I do have first-hand knowledge of similar programs at tier 1 automotive suppliers. The suppliers provide (or are looking to provide) an electronics suite to car manufacturers. The car manufacturers want the system to be safe lest they be sued out of existence. One part…

Why aren't other manufacturers following this model? I've seen 12-year Mercedes with internet connection, so the infrastructure has been there for a while.

It doesn't fit into the development model of car companies at all. Typically you have a 3-4 year development cycle for cars. Within that period lots of stuff happens, from getting contracts with all the suppliers, developing all the individual parts (often from scratch, if a different supplier than the previous one was chosen), integrating that into the cars and testing on the road.

After that a car is pretty much seen as completed, it will go into the factory and to the customer and probably get minor updates and fixes during the first year. However development already starts for the next model. Data and information from previous cars won't help you that much, since the systems in the new car will often be very different (as I said, most things are developed externally and from different suppliers, reuse is limited).

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#379

Post by perbu »

Animats wrote: post #211
luma wrote: post #91

I think what people are missing here is an understanding of how these systems are tested and deployed at scale. While I have no involvement with Tesla I do have first-hand knowledge of similar programs at tier 1 automotive suppliers. The suppliers provide (or are looking to provide) an electronics suite to car manufacturers. The car manufacturers want the system to be safe lest they be sued out of existence. One part…

Of course, Tesla acts like it owns that data. Their privacy policy permits them to monitor your vehicle unless you opt out. But there's no reason you can't download that data yourself, if you can figure out how to do so. Does anybody make an antenna-level middle box for GSM phones? Something you hook into the antenna cable as a firewall/monitor?

FWIW; in the current software you have to opt into "fleet learning". So the car will not participate in data gathering unless you actively turn it on.

They still have access to the car and it's logs, however. Unless you remove the SIM card and disable Wifi, then you are truly on your own.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#380

Post by Matthias247 »

irq11 wrote: post #345
MarkMc wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's probably enough for freeway driving under good conditions. It might rule out driving in fog or snow, but if the weather is OK then the sensor suite is probably enough for driving on any paved road. I think you are underestimating how quickly Tesla's AI software can improve. The AI will always be running and checking to see if the driver does anything unexpected. For example if you brake or swerve suddenly when…

"I think you're underestimating how quickly Tesla'a AI software can improve" Do you have any basis for that statement, other than that you like Elon Musk, and read an article about "big data" once? I have actual experience in this field. The parent is right: the sensors matter more than hypothetical gains from "big data". Because right now, sensors suck . There's a reason every serious player in this game is plopping…

Agree on that. Would however love to read about some confirmed info whether AI/NeuronalNets/BigData really plays a significant role for any of the current automatized drive developments. And how this fits together with safety regulations (ISO26262, ASIL) and the required deterministic behavior.
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