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Tim Cook Speaks Up

businessweek.com

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Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#361

Post by science636 »

GuiA wrote: post #338
linguafranca wrote: post #328

This is the culture I was brought up in. This kind of article is the reason I grew up believing there was nothing wrong with homosexuality. Since every single other comment here is inevitably going to be some kind of applause and praise, let me briefly offer the perspective of some who have been silenced on HN and in the general tech world. We know that homosexuality is a destructive force in society. While we love T…

Yes, you will possibly be downvoted, but not because your opinion dissents with the majority. There are plenty of dissenting opinions on HN who get upvoted to the top, as long as they're well argued and informed. You will be downvoted because your comment has no substance to it. The only claim you make is "we know that homosexuality is a destructive force in society", and it isn't backed up by any meaningful conversa…

Male-male homosexual intercourse significantly increases your chances of contracting HIV/AIDS. Is that destructive?

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#362

Post by mkr-hn »

tormeh wrote: post #347
mkr-hn wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like we had similar experiences. I had no model of "gay" that resembled me, and almost everyone around me was aggressively straight. Even considering the idea of being gay made me uncomfortable. So much changed in the last year that I felt safe thinking about it, and it was obvious in retrospect.

Well, there's always Newton. We don't really know his sexual orientation, but it was probably either gay or asexual.

That's a lot like when people wheel out Ada Lovelace as a token example of women in tech. It doesn't help people now who don't see anyone who shows they're allowed to be a part of something.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#363

Post by angersock »

dwild wrote: post #292
ForrestN wrote: post #235

I am incredibly grateful to Cook for this, not least because of how it will affect young gay people. When I was a child, I felt generally good about myself. I was reasonably smart, well-spoken, curious, and so on, and I wanted to do something important with my life. Some nagging part of me suspected I was gay from very early on, but I resisted it intensely. I wasn't really afraid of being mistreated, although I proba…

At first I didn't like the news. Tim Cook is gay, so what? I though 5 seconds about it and then I realized how actually we still need this... we still need to remind people that there's nothing wrong with being gay. That's sad that we are still at this point.

Yep.

Now if only we could remind people that there's nothing wrong with having an unpopular opinion.

After all, Brendan Eich has done more for computing than Cook ever will.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#364

Post by linguafranca »

GuiA wrote: post #338
linguafranca wrote: post #328

This is the culture I was brought up in. This kind of article is the reason I grew up believing there was nothing wrong with homosexuality. Since every single other comment here is inevitably going to be some kind of applause and praise, let me briefly offer the perspective of some who have been silenced on HN and in the general tech world. We know that homosexuality is a destructive force in society. While we love T…

Yes, you will possibly be downvoted, but not because your opinion dissents with the majority. There are plenty of dissenting opinions on HN who get upvoted to the top, as long as they're well argued and informed. You will be downvoted because your comment has no substance to it. The only claim you make is "we know that homosexuality is a destructive force in society", and it isn't backed up by any meaningful conversa…

Quoting the comment guidelines:

The test for substance is a lot like it is for links. Does your comment teach us anything? There are two ways to do that: by pointing out some consideration that hadn't previously been mentioned, and by giving more information about the topic, perhaps from personal experience. Whereas comments like "LOL!" or worse still, "That's retarded!" teach us nothing.

I do believe simply offering a different perspective falls under the guidelines of a good comment, without the need for elaborating prematurely. That would be like pre-mature optimization; I might guess incorrectly what to elaborate on. Feedback gives me greater direction in what to answer.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#365

Post by science636 »

taytus wrote: post #345
linguafranca wrote: post #328

This is the culture I was brought up in. This kind of article is the reason I grew up believing there was nothing wrong with homosexuality. Since every single other comment here is inevitably going to be some kind of applause and praise, let me briefly offer the perspective of some who have been silenced on HN and in the general tech world. We know that homosexuality is a destructive force in society. While we love T…

"We know that homosexuality is a destructive force in society" - NOPE.

The other side can argue that Africa has been ravaged by HIV/AIDS caused in large part due to unsafe sexual intercourse (male-male sex is leading cause)

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#366

Post by lthornberry »

facepalm wrote: post #282
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a cool view, but not how it works. The 'side issue' you dismiss is really the center of it: the government denies full participation to a class of people based on a questionable moral stance. Anything less that recognition is a 'back of the bus' argument: if the bus goes to the same place, why do you care if you have to sit in the back?

Well married homosexuals get the right to adopt children (I assume). I don't think it's just a moral stance. Maybe some people really are convinced that having two dads is bad for children psychologically. They would probably be wrong, but it's not a question of morals (unless you dismiss the protection of children's wellbeing as a goal). I am not sure if science has really shown it's not bad for children. I personal…

Science has shown it's not bad for children: http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/parenting.aspx?item=11

People who continue to make this argument are ignoring a very well-established conclusion in the social science research.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#367

Post by arnarbi »

blktiger wrote: post #298
dodyg wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tim Cook is a Christian. This is a message to the Church.

I have a hard time thinking of anyone as Christian if they ignore the basic tenants of what the Bible says. Homosexuality is very clearly spelled out as wrong. So are plenty of other things of course and the Bible doesn't specify homosexual behavior as any more or less wrong than any other sinful act. Christians shouldn't be treating homosexuals any different than anyone else, but that includes letting people know th…

Millions of Christians don't take the Bible as the literal word of God. Several Christian churches have no problem with blessing the marriage of gay couples.

A Christian is just someone who believes in Jesus Christ as a messiah. You are referring to something much more specific.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#368

Post by mkr-hn »

lotharbot wrote: post #339
Arnor wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No... They simply acknowledge that the roughly 4% of the population that identify with the LGBT community exists. It's a pretty far push from acknowledging existence to "pushing homosexuality on everyone." I'll leave as an exercise to the reader to identify the mental gymnastics required to come up with the phrase: "pushing homosexuality on everyone"

there are those who are trying to require religious organizations to perform same-sex weddings. I think that qualifies as "pushing"...

So many have done it willingly, in advance of any pressure, that religion isn't a credible defense.

edit: I just realized I got dragged way off topic by a troll. Whoops.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#369

Post by facepalm »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #324
facepalm wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well married homosexuals get the right to adopt children (I assume). I don't think it's just a moral stance. Maybe some people really are convinced that having two dads is bad for children psychologically. They would probably be wrong, but it's not a question of morals (unless you dismiss the protection of children's wellbeing as a goal). I am not sure if science has really shown it's not bad for children. I personal…

All that is government meddling in someone else's affairs in the most egregious way possible. Its not as far as taking kids from single parents etc. because they don't fit someone's model of a perfect family, but nearly there. My cousin has 4 kids, and is married to the love of her life Lisa. Their kids are certifiably the kindest, most considerate kids I know. There's been no psychological damage, at least not at th…

Sure, that is what I said in another comment: if you argue homosexual couples are somehow unfit to raise children, you would also have to question other people's fitness.

But I think you are wrong about adoption. I think it's one of the main concerns opponents of gay marriage have. What other rights would people be concerned about? The other one I can think of is the right to bring your spouse into your country.

Are people going to the barricades because they don't want gays to be able to visit their partners in hospital? I rather doubt it. Adoption is one of the big issues.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#370

Post by mcv »

adrianb wrote: post #176
Mahn wrote: post #8

I wish we lived in a society where people weren't pressured into "publically acknowledge" their sexual orientation just because it's different than the norm. You don't see heterosexual CEOs publically acknowledging they are banging their wife, why should it be different for other sexual orientations? Just let everyone be.

Heterosexual CEOs have wives...

Not necessarily.
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