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Stop Generalizing About Europe

jonasbentzen.com

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Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#361

Post by archangel_one »

_pferreir_ wrote: post #250
PoliticsJunkie wrote: post #53

Created an account just to state this: tech people please don't go into discussing politics / economics. Brits want to exit EU because of wars in the past? This is ridiculous! What about the real reasons: 1. Britain has 70% of its laws created by the EU by burocrats who were never voted into the office and can't be voted out of the office: Barroso (President of the European Commission) and Von Rumpoy (whatever his na…

Your opinion surprises me. Everyone else in the EU is pretty much convinced that the UK is just trying to eat the cake and have it. IIRC, the UK has opted out of Schengen and the Euro. That would look OK to me were we not talking of two core EU projects that were supposed to be game changers. Coming from a country that is currently under an European assistance program, I am not myself very fond of the "Chancellor", b…

> Everyone else in the EU is pretty much convinced that the UK is just trying to eat the cake and have it.

Considering that the UK is the fourth-largest contributor to the EU budget, paying more than we get back, and haven't benefited from the Euro in the way that eg. Germany has, I would say that we're giving you plenty of cake. There's no reason the EU has to be an all-or-nothing affair; there are plenty of other countries that have opted out of the Euro as well, and frankly with the chaos over Greece which has been heavily caused by their uncompetitiveness in a shared currency, I don't think you're in a great position to criticise that decision.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#362

Post by aemerson »

PoliticsJunkie wrote: post #307
_pferreir_ wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your opinion surprises me. Everyone else in the EU is pretty much convinced that the UK is just trying to eat the cake and have it. IIRC, the UK has opted out of Schengen and the Euro. That would look OK to me were we not talking of two core EU projects that were supposed to be game changers. Coming from a country that is currently under an European assistance program, I am not myself very fond of the "Chancellor", b…

EU is a failing Project that has chosen to ignore democratic procedures and no-votes for decades. It doesn't work, it never did and it never will. It's basic economics that you can't have the same central bank for two countries like Germany and Greece, isn't it? But not when integration unelected fanatics like ex-marxist Barroso come into play. They don't care about nuances like democratic NOs or economic commonse se…

Don't pretend that Germany didn't benefit hugely from the economic integration of weaker countries such as Greece. It takes two to tango, and tango you did.

The single currency tied the economies together, it allowed Greeks to use the cheap credit of the German economy to buy what? German cars. Germany's export businesses grew hugely because of the real value of the euro was weaker than the Deutsche Mark.

This is a problem where no single party is at fault. Yes, the Greeks were irresponsible with the credit but it's not the full story.

Apart from that, I agree with your points about the general economic union. Without a peaceful political and cultural one, it was doomed to fail.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#363

Post by ricardobeat »

pointernil wrote: post #172
lispm wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ambivalent feelings toward entrepreneurs Germany has over three millions SMEs (small and medium enterprises, called 'Mittelstand'). I can assure you that there are no ambivalent feelings against 'entrepreneurs'. Exactly the opposite. You find world-market leaders in small towns all across rural Germany. You can guess that people are extremely proud to work for these companies. 99% of all companies are in the Mittel…

" I can assure you that there are no ambivalent feelings against 'entrepreneurs'. " quite often this is believed to be true: start-up == entrepreneurship Well, I disagree here and it looks like you are mixing up 'entrepreneurs' and the "Mittelstand" you mentioned. I don't know if this is generally true, but i'm under the impression that there is some negative sentiment towards 'entrepreneurship' as it is connected wi…

There is negative sentiment towards making money fast or just in it for the money everywhere, but that's not the definition of a startup.

Many (most?) startups do aim towards (or at least pretend to be) creating sustainable, fast-growing businesses, aiming for an exit from the start is very specific to SV/US. I don't see resistance to accept the crazy financial speculation that comes with your model of 'entrepreneurship' as something so negative.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#364

Post by kawsper »

crazygringo wrote: post #34

This post feels awfully pedantic. While it may not be clear to non-Americans, when Americans talk about "Europe", they're generally talking about Western Europe, not Eastern, and are excluding the UK too. They almost certainly aren't including Russia. (Just like when Americans talk about Asia, they aren't usually thinking of India.) Of course, that's geographically inaccurate -- but it's what we usually mean. The Eur…

> The Europe that Americans refer to does mostly use the Euro, have better-distributed wealth, plenty of consumers, and ambivalent feelings toward entrepreneurs in most of its parts.

None of the Scandinavian countries have Euroes.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#365

Post by speleding »

davedx wrote: post #292
white_devil wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think of social democracies with high taxes. I think of arcane rules and regulations to start and run a business. .. Aaand you'd be right about France, Germany, Spain, England, The Netherlands, Denmark, Austria and Italy (and Norway, Sweden, Finland). In other words, you'd be right about "the countries that matter" (and some that don't).

"Arcane rules and regulations to start and run a business": Please explain what you mean by this for the Netherlands? (I say this as an expat Brit with his own business in the NL)

I can think of one: The CEO of a Dutch corporation (BV) needs to receive a minimum salary of €47.000 per year, even if your startup is operating at a loss. You can easily get this reduced by the tax inspector if you show a loss but it's a hassle and you can't reduce it to zero. (So you if you fund your own incorporated startup you will have to pay your saving to yourself, and lose taxes along the way)

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#366

Post by Aloisius »

jballanc wrote: post #222
mindjiver wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turkey/Istanbul maybe?

Yup! Turkey has placed high in the world-wide rankings for growth throughout the '00s, despite the financial crises happening on its doorstep. It's interesting, because when EU negotiations began, the attitude was very much "poor little Turkey is looking to the rest of Europe for help" and the EU was playing the part of reluctant partner. Today, most Turks are against EU membership, but the EU has been making more an…

Isn't the vast majority of Turkey in Asia?

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#367

Post by canadiancreed »

euphemize wrote: post #347
Typhon wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as if the U.S. is a homogenous culture Compared to Europe, it certainly is. From a merely linguistic viewpoint, in North America there's English and Spanish (Ok, and native american languages, but they're really not much spoken). In Western and Northern Europe, there's French, Italian, Dutch, German, Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, and Finnish. The thing is, identity is a matter of contrast. See this : http://squid314.li…

Did you forget that 7 million people speak French in Québec? And because a language is not much spoken, it doesn't count?

If I'm reading you correctly, Quebec wouldn't apply, because Quebec is in Canada, not the United States.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#368

Post by JohnFromBuffalo »

jballanc wrote: post #105
JohnFromBuffalo wrote: post #30

My 2c, is stop trying to be one nation then. The EU zone is something of a fiasco and its really killing the entire zone with countries like Turkey and Greece. Don't blame us .. blame your governing body for making it difficult to operate in Europe.

Uh, what's the problem with Turkey?

It's not Merica and you guys don't have NASCAR.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#369

Post by _b8r0 »

Svip wrote: post #227
_b8r0 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone from the UK, I see your list as mostly similar to mine, except I'd put Austria in the Central Europe camp. I'd also put Switzerland and Italy as Central Europe in location but Western Europe in culture. There's definitely parts of Germany I'd class as western in location but eastern in culture.

Looking at his list, it seems that he is merely dividing Europe into West and East, no Centre. What's Northern Europe? What's Southern Europe?

Having just come back from touring Italy, I think I can say that anything south of the olive line (that is oil producing regions) would constitute Southern Europe. This, typically like European countries is not as useful as it seems as France, Italy etc. all exist both above and below the line, but there is definitely a cultural (and ethnic) difference between those living in colder and warmer climates.

Similarly I'd suggest the point at which grape production for wine tails off would signify the start of Northern Europe. Wine grapes are grown in England, but I wouldn't call England a big wine producing country. Similarly, the Netherlands has some wine production but I wouldn't class them as a major wine producer and as such part of Northern Europe. North of Dusseldorf or Hannover? Arguably Northern Europe. South of Dresden? Probably Central Europe.

I completely appreciate this is made on no scientific basis whatsoever and I'm probably completely wrong, but if you visit Spain, southern France, Italy, Greece and Western Turkey you'll see remarkable cultural and ethnic differences and similarities between them and Austria, Poland, central and southern Germany and in turn Northern Germany, the Netherlands, northern France and the UK.

TL;DR - Europe's a mess. We can't even really all agree on what it is.

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