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Stop Generalizing About Europe

jonasbentzen.com

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Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#301

Post by PoliticsJunkie »

lispm wrote: post #260
PoliticsJunkie wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't it Hitler who called Brits 'a nation of shop-keepers' ? What a trading nation would do is make a living of - for example - buying tea from India to sell across Europe. Not some low-level, small scale enterprise. That has never been the engine of the German economy. German trade has always been a by-product of craftsmanship and not its replacement.

Funny that you say that. Just a ten kilometers from where I live is this: http://www.haelssen-lyon.de/index.php?id=22&L=1 Also this: http://www.teaandcoffee.net/1107/tea.htm > The Port of Hamburg is Europe’s tea capital number and handles more than 70% of all German tea imports, as well as some 50% of the European-wide traded teas. Germany has been for centuries been heavy into international trade. The city where I l…

Agreed. Germany may import more into the EU market than anybody else including UK. That's not my point. My point is that from the British perspective it is much better to open borders and trade with India, Canada, Australia, US, then to try doing the same with the EU. They closed themselves in the EU-block distancing from emerging markets in Asia and from the Commonwealth while Indians for that example are literally begging them for business. To no avail as the UK can't have free trade agreements with India as long as it stays within the EU. The same EU by the way which is just in the process of passing laws that will kill the biggest British business and pride - the City.

If you narrow yourself to the trade and banking within the EU, yes I agree, Germany are bigger player than anybody else. Start thinking globally, and you'll soon realize that UK stands much better chances in global economy trading freely with the Commonwealth and Asia than turning their back to these markets and focusing on the local European block.

Think Hong Kong, think Canada, think Australia -- from UK perspective it is just better business to be in an free trade economic block with them then to stay in euro disaster zone. This is what they have been doing for centuries. UK is no.1 in the world in terms of value of items traded per capita. Yes, they are a nation of shop-keepers. EU seems to be one-size-fits-all solution that obviously doesn't work for them anymore and probably never worked. They'll exit, open borders to Asia, ex-colonies, trade with them, do their banking, logistics and all the other stuff they have been doing centuries. While Germany will still export/import in Hamburg, nobody minds, everybody just does what's the best for their country. No surprises there.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#302

Post by geldedus »

crazygringo wrote: post #34

This post feels awfully pedantic. While it may not be clear to non-Americans, when Americans talk about "Europe", they're generally talking about Western Europe, not Eastern, and are excluding the UK too. They almost certainly aren't including Russia. (Just like when Americans talk about Asia, they aren't usually thinking of India.) Of course, that's geographically inaccurate -- but it's what we usually mean. The Eur…

even if we talk about the Western Europe only, the article is STILL 100% valid

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#303

Post by geldedus »

john_flintstone wrote: post #131
crazygringo wrote: post #34

This post feels awfully pedantic. While it may not be clear to non-Americans, when Americans talk about "Europe", they're generally talking about Western Europe, not Eastern, and are excluding the UK too. They almost certainly aren't including Russia. (Just like when Americans talk about Asia, they aren't usually thinking of India.) Of course, that's geographically inaccurate -- but it's what we usually mean. The Eur…

Sorry, but no. I've been in discussions recently with a French company whose development team is based in Dublin (Ireland for the geo-illiterate). Most of the tech staff in Dublin were East European, and the company's HR department was in Romania - a non-EU country. This EU centric perception is a media perception, and bears no relationship to the reality on the ground in Europe. Company in question was owned by a a…

quote:"[Romania] ain't even that European"

No kidding. This simply shows your ignorance about Europe.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#304

Post by arethuza »

alexchamberlain wrote: post #276
aes256 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then again, I think a fair number of Brits would state Northern Ireland (the difference between Great Britain and the United Kingdom) is part of Great Britain

You've also got the Channel Islands, and the Isles of Mann and Wight to contend with. Then there's the fact that one is a political union and one a union under the monarch... something like that anyway.

I was unaware that the Isle of Wight had any unusual political status....

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#305

Post by viraptor »

arethuza wrote: post #299
mpweiher wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't think I have ever met anyone though that doesn't think of the UK as part of Europe." Except Brits, of course ;-)

Except some Brits.

It's really common to hear that someone from the UK is "going to Europe". Takes some time to get used to it.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#306

Post by rmc »

PoliticsJunkie wrote: post #245
arethuza wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention there is a distinct possibility that the UK will itself break up in the next few years.

The same goes for Spain, Belgium, Italy... beyond funny - EU advocating continental unity causing break-down even such already small countries as Belgium. Even more funny - Von Rumpoy is from Belgium traveling continent advocating for unity, while his own small country is falling apart into pieces.

I think it makes perfect sense. You have a pan-european state that deals with the big stuff (like human rights) and national ethnic groups for the little stuff.

There has been a trend towards large countries breaking up into national/ethnic groupings for almost 200 years in Europe. The phrase "Balkanization" dates, not from the recent Yugoslav wars, but initially from 200 years ago when the Ottoman's were breaking up!

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#307

Post by PoliticsJunkie »

_pferreir_ wrote: post #250
PoliticsJunkie wrote: post #53

Created an account just to state this: tech people please don't go into discussing politics / economics. Brits want to exit EU because of wars in the past? This is ridiculous! What about the real reasons: 1. Britain has 70% of its laws created by the EU by burocrats who were never voted into the office and can't be voted out of the office: Barroso (President of the European Commission) and Von Rumpoy (whatever his na…

Your opinion surprises me. Everyone else in the EU is pretty much convinced that the UK is just trying to eat the cake and have it. IIRC, the UK has opted out of Schengen and the Euro. That would look OK to me were we not talking of two core EU projects that were supposed to be game changers. Coming from a country that is currently under an European assistance program, I am not myself very fond of the "Chancellor", b…

EU is a failing Project that has chosen to ignore democratic procedures and no-votes for decades. It doesn't work, it never did and it never will. It's basic economics that you can't have the same central bank for two countries like Germany and Greece, isn't it? But not when integration unelected fanatics like ex-marxist Barroso come into play. They don't care about nuances like democratic NOs or economic commonse sense. They want to build this - as you called it - superpower - at all costs and against the people. And people are tired of this nonsense.

It may look fine when you sit in Eastern Europe and get all the funds. But think for German taxpayer for a while who now has to pay for your infrastruture, meet your debt obligations in case something goes wrong, and import all the unemployed form your country. How much longer do you think Germans will take it? Of course, it's nice to be on the receiving end. But being in an economic crisis + having your own unemployed + tax hikes for your highways, do you think this makes EU popular among German voters? No, it doesn't. If Germany was given a chance there is a good chance they would opt to exit as well.

Eastern Europe is very pro-EU because it is bribed by all the money stolen from the Western Europe. But nobody, really nobody, in the West wants to stay on the board of the Titanic anymore.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#308

Post by crucialfelix »

lessnonymous wrote: post #272
crucialfelix wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most English people would struggle to tell you the difference between Great Britain and the UK. FTFY

As most British people are English, if the percentage of unaware English people is high enough, then most British people would be unaware :-D

Drat, once again foiled by logic.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#309

Post by jonascopenhagen »

treenyc wrote: post #300
jonascopenhagen wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When Americans talk about "Europe", they're generally talking about Western Europe, not Eastern, and are excluding the UK too. This doesn't hold true for any of the Americans I've met (and I've met a lot). Also, one of the countries Martin Varsavsky mentions in his examples is actually the UK. If it were true that the American definition of Europe doesn't include Eastern Europe, what part of the world do the many A…

hi, I'm in Denmark at the moment, would like talk to you about my impression of Denmark. How can I contact you?

Shoot me a message at https://www.facebook.com/bentzenj

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#310

Post by PoliticsJunkie »

rmc wrote: post #306
PoliticsJunkie wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same goes for Spain, Belgium, Italy... beyond funny - EU advocating continental unity causing break-down even such already small countries as Belgium. Even more funny - Von Rumpoy is from Belgium traveling continent advocating for unity, while his own small country is falling apart into pieces.

I think it makes perfect sense. You have a pan-european state that deals with the big stuff (like human rights) and national ethnic groups for the little stuff. There has been a trend towards large countries breaking up into national/ethnic groupings for almost 200 years in Europe. The phrase "Balkanization" dates, not from the recent Yugoslav wars, but initially from 200 years ago when the Ottoman's were breaking up…

No. This a feudal phenomenon right from the Middle Ages. The Papal Rome (EU) that deals with the big stuff and regionalization. That's why many historians and philosophers claim that times we are living in will be referred to as neo-feudal in the future:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-feudalism

That's backwardation. Similarly, in the Middle Ages there was no concept of nation states. Sounds like EU agenda, doesn't it?

Not to mention other similarities: 1% above the law elites, bankers, etc. and 99% of serfs. Definition of serf: born in debt and dies in debt. Religious wars (think crusades to Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan to enforce our Christian-born values), etc, etc. Whatever you touch in terms of social sciences in the modern societies of the West is feudal. Including things like rise of Asia and deterioration of the West.

We're in the process of building of a neo-feudal society.

Not fun. Just trying to fight against it every step it takes.

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