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Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

blog.ericgoldman.org

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Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#361

Post by majorchord »

SepiaSapient wrote: post #67
majorchord wrote: post #12

IMO "end-to-end encryption" simply isn't possible when the application is run by the same company as the servers the data sits on, is closed source, and can at any time, see the decrypted contents of data it downloads from their servers and do whatever they want with it. Same issue with Proton, MEGA, and any other e2ee app... it's only useful when the company decides not to mess with the data it could always decrypt…

Beyond the privacy marketing angle, e2e allows companies with global exposure to sidestep any unpleasantness when they get a subpoena from Bumfuck, Nowhere. Sure, the NSA, GCHQ and Mossad have a way to exfiltrate the unencrypted data but proprietary e2e is a good thing for most people IMO. Shifts the risk from "my messages are theoretically available to most law enforcement in the globe" to "YOU’RE STILL GONNA BE MOS…

> sidestep any unpleasantness when they get a subpoena

I'm curious as to how well (legally) this "we could modify the app to do it, but nah" approach actually works, and for how long.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#362

Post by godwinson__4-8 »

fluoridation wrote: post #325
rationalist wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never heard anyone say that a rate is ambiguous. It seems like you're trying to be disingenuous, first with "rate", now with my clearly-arbitrary example of rate. > something like

A rate is just a ratio between two quantities. You've never heard speed defined as the rate of movement? I might have interpreted your example as such if not for the "one too many" comment. It's strange to throw out a completely fictitious figure and then lament it as if it's real.

who is fighting windmills now? :P

see how your patience has been rewarded... no good deed goes unpunished. he will never produce an actual figure. look at his other replies. such a victim complex. on behalf of the catholic church. regarding their sexual abuse of minors. what more is there to say?

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#363

Post by blackqueeriroh »

ipaddr wrote: post #357
derektank wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no concrete evidence that anyone besides Epstein (and by extension Maxwell, who assisted Epstein) actually abused children. Besides the testimony of Virginia Giuffre, nobody else has claimed they were sexually assaulted as minors (Sjoberg was groped by Prince Andrew at Epstein’s home when she was in her early 20s). And neither the FBI nor the Palm Beach PD found physical evidence of such or communications bet…

There is if someone would follow the money trail. Plenty of hard facts to reach a guilty outcome. And over half of the papers haven't been released. If someone motivated comes to power there is a good chance.

Where are the hard facts about this? If you know them why haven’t you shared them?

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#364

Post by dartharva »

derektank wrote: post #315
ryandrake wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, until at least one non-ringleader Epstein party participant goes to jail, I'm not going to believe the US actually gives a shit about protecting children.

There’s no concrete evidence that anyone besides Epstein (and by extension Maxwell, who assisted Epstein) actually abused children. Besides the testimony of Virginia Giuffre, nobody else has claimed they were sexually assaulted as minors (Sjoberg was groped by Prince Andrew at Epstein’s home when she was in her early 20s). And neither the FBI nor the Palm Beach PD found physical evidence of such or communications bet…

Just in case someone might mistake this comment to imply there wasn't actually a large-scale CSA-as-a-service business happening on his island - FBI has officially declared the number of minor victims to be over a thousand: https://www.justice.gov/opa/media/1407001/dl

It was an industrial-scale racket. It is impossible for that kind of number of victims to be just for one person or group's recreation.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#365

Post by brokenmachine »

trvz wrote: post #154
GeekyBear wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel that Apple open pandora's box with the client-side scanning. That box has been open for years now. Big brother is already watching what you do on your Android device. > A Dad Took Photos of His Naked Toddler for the Doctor. Google Flagged Him as a Criminal. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/21/technology/google-surveil...

Google is not Apple. Apple customers expect the higher standard.

Well, there's a lot of things you can expect from Apple customers.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#366

Post by nsonha »

giantg2 wrote: post #198

Maybe my perception is off, but it seems like there's a huge push by the legislature and some people to do anything and everything to prevent CSAM, yet almost nothing seems to be done to prevent CSA. For CSAM, there's all sorts of monitoring, scanning, identify capturing, etc. But it's all after abuse has taken place, and it seems that many of the people actually arrested are arrested for CSAM and not CSA. This has e…

I don't know how to say this and not sound like a CSAM or CSA offender but CSAM policing sounds too much thought policing to me, if you wanna police CSA just go and do it, don't police what people have in their mind.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#367

Post by boredatoms »

nativeit wrote: post #282
Hasz wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it isn't about CSAM, IMO. You see this with plenty of social issues, notably firearms ownership. The claim is we will restrict/license/outlaw xyz for the kids, but really, a data-drive approach would have focused on different things entirely (eg additional behavioral health services for kids, suicide prevention etc) The same technology/access used for CSAM identification can find copyrighted files, materials…

When did we aggressively legislate against, search for, monitor, investigate, and prosecute owning firearms?

Most countries do

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#368

Post by brokenmachine »

RajT88 wrote: post #234
dgellow wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is pretty extreme, you have at the same time easy access to all the pornography you want (unless you’re in states that require age verification), and also a very prude culture. It’s not the only place with such contradictions though

Texas is particularly wild to me as a midwesterner. All the bibles and megachurches and all that and... They have strip clubs freaking everywhere! Really weird zoning laws as well - I recall seeing a strip club across the street from an Office Depot, next to a deli. The suburbs where I live, you have to go to a seedy part of town so you feel good and ashamed about it. lol Some TV shows rightfully take aim at this con…

My uninformed guess as a non-murican would be that it's just zoned as a business.

I doubt there would be a special zoning category exclusively for strip clubs.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#369

Post by BLKNSLVR »

giantg2 wrote: post #198

Maybe my perception is off, but it seems like there's a huge push by the legislature and some people to do anything and everything to prevent CSAM, yet almost nothing seems to be done to prevent CSA. For CSAM, there's all sorts of monitoring, scanning, identify capturing, etc. But it's all after abuse has taken place, and it seems that many of the people actually arrested are arrested for CSAM and not CSA. This has e…

The lowest of the low hanging political points scoring fruit will be picked.

I make this point on HN each time it comes up: Dealing with actual CSA requires actual people going to investigate actual reports of children's living conditions out in the real world, not "scanning digital files". Seems obvious when you say it like that, but the alternative seems to still score heavily on the political scale. Ironically, spending more money on "scanning digital files" takes away from resources that could prevent those digital files from being created in the first place, so all the additional time, money, and effort towards combatting CSAM is time, money, and effort specifically _not_ working against stopping CSA. It's categorically _not_ protecting the children.

Teachers, in Australia at least, have mandatory reporting where any kind of abuse is suspected. The heart-breaking irony is that the resources to investigate the reports are so scarce that they can only respond to reports where the child's life is in immediate danger.

Caveat: the above was true a few years ago, I genuinely don't know if it's still true. What I do know is that 'social work' isn't suddenly a high paying job, so I doubt resource availability has changed much.

There is no easy answer to this. It's entirely nuance.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#370

Post by Cider9986 »

anonymars wrote: post #240
SXX wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is very much like WhatsApp. Yes you cant perfectly trust their E2EE against state actors, but both in fact put some effort into making world have little bit more privacy. At least on Desktop we have usable Linux, but on the phones there is literally nothing usable because thanks to Google efforts switching to GrapheneOS mean tons of apps either not working or break every few months. Yes its possible to make And…

WhatsApp insists on having access to your contact list. Pro-privacy, it ain't. It's still a Meta product.

Perhaps not anymore [1] and they have usernames as well.

[1] https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/no-longer-neccesary-to-s...

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