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How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

nytimes.com

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Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#361

Post by ksec »

Insanity wrote: post #2

As a European who moved to Canada and spends a fair amount of time in the States, one thing that really surprised me is how hard it is to find healthy food options compared to the unhealthy ones. Food was a bit of a concern before moving, but I didn't know just how frustrating it would be. Even something as simple as Yogurt is usually insanely sweet / sugary compared to European variants. Ingredients that are banned…

I am starting to think if there are any business opportunities to brand "European Standard" Food as Healthy Options in the US.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#362

Post by xnx »

benrutter wrote: post #167
tptacek wrote: post #93

This all has very big "uncured bacon" energy to me (if you didn't already know: there's no such thing; vendors of uncured bacon performatively drive the same chemical nitrite reaction using vegetable extracts). For example: yogurt becomes a UPF simply by dint of adding carrageenan, which is on the order of calling dashi a UPF because of the kombu. It's not that there isn't a very legitimate issue underneath all this:…

> It's just that "UPF" isn't the right metric for isolating those foods I've heard this criticism a fair bit, and I sort of agree. The only thing is, what is the right metric? And if we don't have one, and know these foods are causing harm, should we just use UPF as a term anyway?

> what is the right metric?

Not sure of the formula, but it would be a metric that ignores "processing" or "unnatural" ingredients and somehow scores for high calories in absence of fiber or protein.

Examples: Apple juice: sugar calories without fiber or protein = bad

Apples: sugar calories, but has fiber = OK

Potato chips: fat and carb calories without fiber or protein = bad

Baked potato with butter: fat and carb calories, but has fiber = OK

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#363

Post by scotty79 »

IAmBroom wrote: post #339
scotty79 wrote: post #317

Do you know of any research showing that ultra-processed food in general is bad? The only thing I found was comparing ultra-processed food with other food with the same nutritional value that concluded that people get fatter on UPF because they eat more of it. The only conclusion I could draw from it is that UPF is just tastier. (or hyper palatable if you want to make it sound more sinister)

Not to be glib, but the answer to your question is as simple as https://www.google.com/search?q=research+showing+that+ultra-... Spoiler: it increases your chance of cancer and other mortality issues. And makes you fat.

Being fat is a known cancer risk and risk for other issues. Does UPF add anything to that?

Or is the only charge against it that it's easy to eat more of it?

If so basically if you can keep your weight in check you can eat any amount of UPF without any adverse effects, right?

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#364

Post by tptacek »

Amezarak wrote: post #359
tptacek wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% of potato chips are bad for you. 0% of unsweetened yogurts are bad for you. You're defending a scheme that labels some of those yogurts as unhealthy, and some of the potato chips as healthy. Extremely simple issue.

I’m skeptical that thinly sliced potatoes crisped in olive oil are bad for you. I don’t believe unsweetened yogurt is bad either, although some people would say so because of the saturated fat content. Certainly very few people are going to eat any real amount of unsweetened yogurt, except perhaps as a dip.

I mean, at the point where you're arguing that fried potato chips are healthy, I think we've kind of established the poles of the argument and can leave it there.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#365

Post by Milpotel »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #185
Milpotel wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bit too naive considering how bad food became during the last decade. Formerly perfectly fine products now have artificial ingredients to increase profits.

How is it naive? You were literally unable to eat the foods because they rotted in delivery and refrigeration was so expensive it made fresh foods unaffordable to the consumer. Even then they were not edible because they were not ripened due to the lack of ethylene. I’m not discussing the last decade, in fact in the last decade the availability of fresh food is absurdly better vs say 1930-1995 or so. The article also…

> fresh food is absurdly better vs say 1930-1995 or so

Not sure where you grew up. The variety reg. vegetables/fruits is larger (e.g. pomelos weren't a thing in my childhood) and the availability across the year is much better but the quality is worse. You now only get a few or sometimes even a single genetically modified kind because some big companies control seed production. Yes, meat doesn't go stale as fast as before - but it is full of chemicals now. Same for bread.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#366

Post by Amezarak »

tptacek wrote: post #364
Amezarak wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m skeptical that thinly sliced potatoes crisped in olive oil are bad for you. I don’t believe unsweetened yogurt is bad either, although some people would say so because of the saturated fat content. Certainly very few people are going to eat any real amount of unsweetened yogurt, except perhaps as a dip.

I mean, at the point where you're arguing that fried potato chips are healthy, I think we've kind of established the poles of the argument and can leave it there.

I think if you don’t feel the need to explain, then you’re probably right.

Is it better if I drizzled the same amount of olive oil, on a baked potato instead? Is this about the potential problems of heating oils or something else? Are you just one of the people who believe carbohydrates are the cause of the obesity epidemic? And therefore chips are bad because of the carb content while unsweetened yogurt would be fine?

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#367

Post by volkl48 »

Jensson wrote: post #322
volkl48 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were you actually visiting what Americans would consider a grocery store? I'm not saying this is specifically the case for you, but it is remarkably common for visitors from other parts of the world to visit, go into what we consider a "convenience store", and then be confused that there's basically nothing in terms of actual groceries in there, with probably 80%+ of the "consumable" shelving devoted to snack/"junk"…

> I'm not saying this is specifically the case for you, but it is remarkably common for visitors from other parts of the world to visit, go into what we consider a "convenience store", and then be confused that there's basically nothing in terms of actual groceries in there, with probably 80%+ of the "consumable" shelving devoted to snack/"junk" items. But that is the problem isn't it? That you have to drive so far a…

That's basically getting into having radically different lifestyles and development patterns and you not liking a car-oriented one. (And hey, I agree with you and live somewhere I can walk to most things, including groceries. But that's not the average American lifestyle).

Approximately 92% of US households have at least one car, 59% of US households have more than one car.

The fundamental point that I am making is: Americans do not typically go to convenience stores to buy groceries, it's not even a consideration. The places most do go to buy their groceries do have fresh produce + meat and so on. They tend to just make less frequent trips and buy more at once.

Since they are getting there by car, it's also easier to buy a lot more at once.

When they get home - they also have a much larger refrigerator + freezer (possibly more than one) than is typically seen in Europe to store it in.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#368

Post by UncleMeat »

Amezarak wrote: post #360
UncleMeat wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is weird to me that the boundary between seed oil panic and upf panic appears to be so fuzzy. The nova classification has canola oil as Group 2, by the way.

Canola oil: - is made from a plant historically considered inedible - has a very high input:output ratio - often has extensive processing steps that include industrial solvents like hexane and deodorization steps to make the end product tolerable If that’s not a UPF then I would not regard that definition as useful. Personally I don’t hold to any particular “seed oil” claims, but vegetable oils are a major ingredient…

You can take that up with the nova classification I guess. And... you are absolutely repeating seed oil panic claims in your comment.

In another comment you say that chips fried in olive oil would be healthy. But that wouldn't change the calorie content of the final product compared to chips fried in canola or sunflower oil.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#369

Post by tptacek »

tedunangst wrote: post #358
tptacek wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stuff like this: https://www.glutenfreesociety.org/meat-glue-the-hidden-ingre...

That article is very confused. They're saying that transglutaminase, street name meat glue, extracted from bacteria is literally the same thing as pink slime. Lean finely textured beef, street name pink slime, comes from cows. However processed, it's still beef. You can't squeeze it out of bacteria. Reading the Wikipedia articles it's pretty clear these are different things, even if both are added to beef in some way…

Of course it's confused. I barely read it. I just remember, as a meat glue enthusiast (glue two skirt steaks together sometime! amazing!) that TG was at the heart of a "pink slime" controversy, as one of the ways manufacturers made salable products out of mechanically separated meat.

I don't, like, agree that it's a real issue! That's my point. TG is more than enough to make a food product "UPF", but a lot of TG meat products are probably a whole hell of a let better for you than non-UPF "olive-oil fried potato chips".

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#370

Post by tptacek »

ninalanyon wrote: post #356
tptacek wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European yogurts are also stabilized with carrageenan. Also: you irradiate your dairy to the point where it's shelf stable, so you're nobody to talk. At least our milk doesn't glow in the dark.

> European yogurts are also stabilized with carrageenan. Not in my part of Europe! There are only two ingredients in plain yoghurt here in Norway: milk and a bacterial culture. Flavoured yoghurts typically add fruit puree and sugar.

No true Europeans!
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