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Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

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Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#361

Post by padjo »

skinkestek wrote: post #350
itopaloglu83 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody is a fan of free access and capital markets, until a foreign entity purchases something of importance. It’s a continuation of recent trends and closing markets. Nobody in their sane mind would allow a company like ASML or the likes to be purchased by competitors. But the irony is that when a non-European entity were to do something like this, e.g. nationalize their oil or mining etc. industry or a firm, the…

> But the irony is that when a non-European entity were to do something like this, e.g. nationalize their oil or mining etc. industry or a firm, the whole hell would brake loose. Russia has nationalised a number of Western companies since 2022, even McDonalds. Nothing happened.

Yeah relations between Russia and the west are famously normal right now.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#362

Post by amai »

As long as western companies cannot freely buy companies in China the reverse shouldn't be possible, too.

Business with dictatorships must stop as soon as possible. In fact it should be forbidden. Nothing good comes out of that. I hope we will see more moves like this from democratic governments.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#363

Post by lillecarl »

consumer451 wrote: post #343
satvikpendem wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And China doesn't (didn't?) allow foreign companies to operate in China without a local partner at all Tesla was the first to buck this trend.

The next question is: why did China give Tesla this unprecedented deal? The answer I heard at the time was to get local suppliers and workforce up to Tesla standards. It appears to have worked out for China quite nicely.

That answer is American propaganda, Teslas (especially earlier ones) are famous for their crappy build quality. Tesla would be nothing without the Elon hypetrain.

Chinese Teslas had higher standards early on, panels aligned and such.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#364

Post by MediumOwl »

next_xibalba wrote: post #189
itopaloglu83 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody is a fan of free access and capital markets, until a foreign entity purchases something of importance. It’s a continuation of recent trends and closing markets. Nobody in their sane mind would allow a company like ASML or the likes to be purchased by competitors. But the irony is that when a non-European entity were to do something like this, e.g. nationalize their oil or mining etc. industry or a firm, the…

The Chinese heavily subsidize their companies and have large government bureaus that strategically guide industries over long time frames. For example, the CCP has been on a long, intentional path to destroying all international solar manufacturers via subsidies, dumping, etc. This is not how free markets function.

You are right. China does not really implement free market without government interaction. Then again, neither does the US or any other country for that matter.

The US used its massive state surveillance apparel to spy on essentially every country in the world, not only for diplomatic advantage, which you might argue would be fair game, but also to steal industrial secrets and promote US companies (see e.g. https://www.mediapart.fr/en/journal/france/290615/revealed-m... for France, one of their supposed allies).

Paraphrasing you:

> The US heavily subsidize their companies and have large government bureaus that strategically guide industries over long time frames. For example, the US has been on a long, intentional path to destroying all international corn producers via subsidies, dumping, etc.

The US essentially destroyed the traditional crop growing in Mexico by a combination of subsidies and free trade agreements.

It is _true_ that China does not play a fair free trade game. It is _not true_ that the US, or any other country, does. (The reasons for it should be obvious btw, free trade only works if legislation is more or less the same everywhere, otherwise it's just stupid.)

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#365

Post by maximus_01 »

philosopher1234 wrote: post #279
bdangubic wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I have heard it all, the Government is providing napkins at diners and buying up Costco chicken, missed that one in the budget

My friend, what is so special about the government? If a company uses its massive profits in one area to crus competition by selling at a loss in another area, this is the free market, and when a government does it it is something else? I think you have not thought this through

Private companies do things to maximize profits. They might lose money on some stuff to make more on other things, and there might be some gunk in the system but they are almost all laser focused on making bigger profits.

Governments have lots of other incentives (like job creation, elections, income distribution)

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#366

Post by ta20240528 »

next_xibalba wrote: post #189
itopaloglu83 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody is a fan of free access and capital markets, until a foreign entity purchases something of importance. It’s a continuation of recent trends and closing markets. Nobody in their sane mind would allow a company like ASML or the likes to be purchased by competitors. But the irony is that when a non-European entity were to do something like this, e.g. nationalize their oil or mining etc. industry or a firm, the…

The Chinese heavily subsidize their companies and have large government bureaus that strategically guide industries over long time frames. For example, the CCP has been on a long, intentional path to destroying all international solar manufacturers via subsidies, dumping, etc. This is not how free markets function.

> For example, the CCP has been on a long, intentional path to destroying all international solar manufacturers via subsidies, dumping, etc.

You should see what Microsoft did. Forgetting the corruption the open document format, free/subsidised licences for students is almost the same thing.

Let's rather choose a set of principles and apply them without exception?

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#367

Post by bpye »

Doxin wrote: post #5

Some more context from a dutch news source[0]: The ministry of economic affairs intervened out of a fear that crucial technological skills and capacities will leave the Netherlands and Europe. The ministry stated in a press release[1] that there was a threat of a "knowledge leak" (w/e that means exactly) and a possible threat to the European economy. After this intervention the Dutch government can now stop or revers…

This seems similar to the UK government taking control, though not ownership, of British Steel earlier in the year [0] as the Chinese owner was expected to shut down their blast furnaces, an action that could not be easily reversed - if possible at all. One difference is that the UK government rushed through new legislation [1] to allow this, vs the Dutch government using powers they have had for decades.

[0] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y66y40kgpo

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_Industry_(Special_Measur...

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#368

Post by Intermernet »

itopaloglu83 wrote: post #217
dgfitz wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like… China?

The coke recipe has never been patented, afaik, and similarly certain high-end things were patented only because the main company was hiring a subcontractor to do something. For example, Samsung flat out copied iPhone exactly almost. So, my thinking is that there could be less patents, because they’re less likely to share the technology and patents might let others copy stuff.

Samsung didn't copy the damn iPhone. This is revisionist history. HTC was on the scene for popular Android smart phones before Samsung, and they also didn't copy the iPhone. Early Nokia Symbian devices were on the scene before HTC and they also didn't copy the iPhone. Touch screen phones were going to happen. Apple made the first, popular one, but they were going to happen.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#369

Post by ctenb »

Denvercoder9 wrote: post #56
nonethewiser wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what just happened logistically? I assume this is an entirely independent Chinese company without some Dutch sponsor or something. That conforms to local regulations. But now The Dutch government says "we have this new power over you" and that is that. With the consequence presumably being export control on dutch tech, banning from their market, etc? Or were there any more hooks planted that make it easier to forc…

> I assume this is an entirely independent Chinese company without some Dutch sponsor or something. It's not, it's a Dutch company, formed according to Dutch law, with headquarters in the Netherlands, that was bought by another Chinese company a few years ago. Dutch law sets rules on how any company, but especially public companies (so-called naamloze vennootschappen ) must be governed. Even if you own all the shares…

What is a CLO?

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#370

Post by Congeec »

thenthenthen wrote: post #262
filloooo wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People like to play the victims, nobody else wanted to buy these unattractive companies back then, but once these companies are turned around or eventually fail, suddenly they are of national importance, we were ripped off. The Google Facebook examples probably would hold better if the US hadn't axed TikTok, also, Google isn't banned in China, they refused to comply with censorship regulations and left themselves. Ru…

Google did not even leave, they have a huge office tower in Beijing, Zhongguancun.

depending on how you define "leave". The search engine was shutdown, and the office still has business like ads
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