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Electron band structure in germanium, my ass (2001)

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Re: Electron band structure in germanium, my ass (2001)

#361
post #27

One of my Core Memories when it comes to science, science education, and education in general was in my high school physics class, where we had to do an experiment to determine the gravitational acceleration of Earth. This was done via the following mechanism: Roll a ball off of a standard classroom table. Use a 1990s wristwatch's stopwatch mechanism to start the clock when the ball rolls of the table. Stop the stopw…

I had a teacher in college who before teaching, worked for a company within the gambling industry. He then went on to start his own company, which was as I heard, based purely on the knowledge and connections he made at his former employer. Dude struck gold getting rich off of gambling addicts. Due to his financial success, he thought of himself as some kind of Steve Jobs and an expert on all things related to tech. He would claim to have predicted the popularity of many tech related things, e.g. cloud solutions like google drive and google docs. Problem is that his predictions all came long after all these things had become mainstream.

His lectures were full of incorrect facts. He would ask the class questions and give us wrong answers. I’ve never seen a man so confidently incorrect.

He wrote a book about the fourth industrial revolution in which he used the introduction to brag about all the places he used for writing his book. Including his home in a upper class neighborhood, his home abroad, cafes around the world, etc. His book also contained errors that a simple google search would’ve helped him correct.

A lot of the stuff he taught were interesting. But all the contents of the course could’ve been covered in a video or two.

In my final paper I wrote about how the popularity of new tech can regress even though the tech gets up to great quality. He had stated that you wouldn’t see a computer science student using a laptop after 5 years (this was 10 years ago). They would all be programming on their ipads because the touch screens had become so good. As well as how everyone in their fields were replacing their interfaces with touch screens. I wrote about how mechanical keyboards and physical midi controllers had never been as popular in many fields like audio and video production.

Needless to say. I failed the class. I was just supposed to regurgitate his blogs and opinions.

This was not the only thing to make me lose most all my confidence in any higher education at a time. I went from critical thinking to skeptical thinking. And it was not solely because of my opinions about this teacher. It was because of the opinions of his peers and in how high regard he was kept in the academic society.

I learned that schools are not institutions of science. They’re more like a Church of Science or at the very best, Science’s weird fan club with a weird internal popularity power struggle.

Edit: A word.

Re: Electron band structure in germanium, my ass (2001)

#363
post #27

One of my Core Memories when it comes to science, science education, and education in general was in my high school physics class, where we had to do an experiment to determine the gravitational acceleration of Earth. This was done via the following mechanism: Roll a ball off of a standard classroom table. Use a 1990s wristwatch's stopwatch mechanism to start the clock when the ball rolls of the table. Stop the stopw…

The worst is college science classes where sometimes the provided equipment and/or procedures aren't even correct, and the professor isn't around and you're dealing with a TA who is just as confused as you are. So you debate with yourself between writing down the effect you got (and trusting that you will be rewarded for integrity and effort and rigor), or simply writing down what you know the effect was supposed to…

Sure, but you have to remember why that is the smart choice: because you are in a terrible class (and probably a bad school) that will make as little effort as possible to teach anything at all.

Don't expect the same choices to make sense if you go somewhere people actually care, that would make you a bad student.

Re: Electron band structure in germanium, my ass (2001)

#364
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is enraging. I've seen similar things happen too and it blows my mind how ridiculous some of these teachers can be. I don't know if it's dehumanization of their students in their minds or an utter unwillingness to devote 30 seconds of directed attention to understanding the situation and making a reasonable judgment, but whatever the cause it is prolific. The only thing worse is when one of them will add somethi…

The flip side of this is from the professor's perspective: some undergrad in every class will lie their ass off about why their assignment was delayed. Unfortunately, this reality produces no good options if you think someone is telling the truth: (1) make an exception, and be unfair to the rest of the class or (2) don't make an exception, and perpetuate unfairness for the impacted student.

Note that AI provides a whole new range of possibilities for automating lying about assignments.

Re: Electron band structure in germanium, my ass (2001)

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is enraging. I've seen similar things happen too and it blows my mind how ridiculous some of these teachers can be. I don't know if it's dehumanization of their students in their minds or an utter unwillingness to devote 30 seconds of directed attention to understanding the situation and making a reasonable judgment, but whatever the cause it is prolific. The only thing worse is when one of them will add somethi…

It's a general problem with large bureaucracies. If you're a cog in the machine, the safest way is to always stick to the rules, and avoid any situation where one has to exercise discretion, since any personal judgment comes with potential personal responsibility down the line.

I forgot where I read that large organisations are effectively accountability dilution machines. No one is fully in charge, and everyone gets to say that their hands are tied, that computer says no.

This is the dark side of scale.

Re: Electron band structure in germanium, my ass (2001)

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Like this is fraud level bs that’s happening and people are voting me down. I think it’s because this kind of stuff is common. People have done fraudulent stuff and they don’t agree it’s a fireable offense. Understandable. I still would endanger someone’s livelihood for this. Poor performance I would think twice and go through all measures possible to improve performance including putting them in a position w…

You seem very angry yourself, and willing to let that anger guide you to harming someone. Are you so different from that teacher? In fact, you might be worse, while he only gave a grade (one of many surely, likely to have no long term impact on life prospects or survival), you would have this man made homeless? Don't be so quick to assume a teacher (at least in the us) has been able to accrue sufficient savings to en…

>You seem very angry yourself

To whom? Not to me. Please don't try to assert you know what someone else is feeling.

What they wrote wasn't angry.

>and willing to let that anger guide you to harming someone.

It's not anger that's guiding the call to fire the teacher that willfully mis-grades a correct answer because "they got mad" at the student for understanding the material at above-average level.

It's the compassion for their students.

>Are you so different from that teacher?

Yes. The teacher is given authority over children, and we trust them to be fair and just in their job.

They have violated the trust and abused the authority.

And what got them mad was the student doing what we expect the students to do very well — they learned.

The teacher got mad at their student for learning, and abused the student in retaliation.

The retaliation affected someone who didn't have a choice about being in that position, and who was required to be in that class (by law, among other things), and the consequences of bad grades have lifelong effects.

Meanwhile, the commentor you're responding to observed that the teacher has failed our trust and abused the authority, and deemed such harm to students unacceptable to an extent that warrants revoking this person privilege to teach.

Nobody here has authority over the teacher, nobody trusts us to treat the teacher fairly; the teacher is free to work elsewhere; and we're being displeased about the teacher not merely doing his job badly, but harming his students.

To think these two situations are comparable is a failure of critical thinking, as well as empathy.

>In fact, you might be worse, while he only gave a grade (one of many surely, likely to have no long term impact on life prospects or survival), you would have this man made homeless?

Nobody said anything about making the teacher homeless.

His need of having a home doesn't grant him a right to hurt children.

If you're not happy about firing potentially leading to homelessness, you may advocate for things like housing guarantees, income guarantees, and so on.

The Soviet Union, where that was the case, had its merits after all. Saying this without sarcasm, as someone born in the USSR.

But you appear to be talking in bad faith here (or, at least, without thinking it through), because by your logic, one shouldn't say that anyone should be fired for doing a bad job, by equating firing to homelessness (something specific to the US, BTW).

People are called to be fired (and are fired) for much lesser offenses than willfully hurting children in retaliation.

Most US states are at-will employment states, where anyone can be fired for nearly any reason (the few exceptions are well known).

In light of that, your argument rings hollow.

>Don't be so quick to assume a teacher (at least in the us) has been able to accrue sufficient savings to endure a ruined livelihood.

As someone who's left academia, and has many friends teaching in college or high school: that teacher will likely be better off financially doing anything else anyway.

That said, the system where we pay shit to shitty teachers and justify harm to children by shit pay is shitty all around.

See, the real issue with your rhetoric is that you completely ignore what the teacher has done.

Which is, again, abusing the trust and authority over children (we trust grading to be fair, and a lot depends on it), willfully, in retaliation, for the student having learned a lot.

Whatever the offense was, though, your argument can be repeated verbatim, without any changes, and will be still consistent.

Replace mis-grading with sexual assault, and you can still ask all the same questions you did.

Think about that for a minute. Try it.

...Don't be so quick to assume a teacher (at least in the us) has been able to accrue sufficient savings to endure a ruined livelihood. Sounds very, very extreme to me....

>Might there be a more charitable interpretation of the words, might there be information that we don't have that would, say, humanize the human being you'd like to ruin?

Gee, I must've missed that line in the US Constitution where we're all guaranteed the right to pursuit of happiness, teaching high school classes, and harming students entrusted to our authority by willfully mis-grading them.

Unironically — wouldn't anyone please think of the children?

The teacher's potentially poor finances don't equate to having a right to abuse trust and authority over children.

He has abused that trust in a way that leaves very little hope for him changing his ways (if you think that teacher will ever be happy to see that his student learned more than the teacher knew, I have a bridge to sell to you).

Consequently, there's no reason to believe the teacher should continue having the privilege to have authority over children.

>Maybe we could take the time to understand these impulses in ourselves and be the example we want rather than reflecting the pain we hate to ever increasing magnitudes.

Maybe we could avoid writing empty platitudes and try understanding the points we're responding to.

By "we", I mean "you" (just as you did).

I, for one, have already taught my fair share of mathematics classes over my years in academia, and (imagine it!) not even once I felt the impulse to mis-grade a student for any reason — much less so for being exceptionally good.

The very few times I've had the pleasure to teach someone who I felt was better than I was in the subject that I was teaching, I felt genuinely happy to have such luck.

So I'm all set on being the example.

Now, your turn.

Try to understand what I'm saying here before responding (or otherwise emotionally reacting).

------

TL;DR: abuse of authority over children warrants revoking the privilege to have such authority.

Simple as.

Re: Electron band structure in germanium, my ass (2001)

#367
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flip side of this is from the professor's perspective: some undergrad in every class will lie their ass off about why their assignment was delayed. Unfortunately, this reality produces no good options if you think someone is telling the truth: (1) make an exception, and be unfair to the rest of the class or (2) don't make an exception, and perpetuate unfairness for the impacted student.

That's fair, but in this case it should be pretty easy to verify if the person is lying. The claim is highly reproducible and the instructor wouldn't even have to do it.

[deleted]

Re: Electron band structure in germanium, my ass (2001)

#368
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flip side of this is from the professor's perspective: some undergrad in every class will lie their ass off about why their assignment was delayed. Unfortunately, this reality produces no good options if you think someone is telling the truth: (1) make an exception, and be unfair to the rest of the class or (2) don't make an exception, and perpetuate unfairness for the impacted student.

That's fair, but in this case it should be pretty easy to verify if the person is lying. The claim is highly reproducible and the instructor wouldn't even have to do it.

How? What happens when students start buying faulty hardware to justify unrelated delays?

Re: Electron band structure in germanium, my ass (2001)

#369
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flip side of this is from the professor's perspective: some undergrad in every class will lie their ass off about why their assignment was delayed. Unfortunately, this reality produces no good options if you think someone is telling the truth: (1) make an exception, and be unfair to the rest of the class or (2) don't make an exception, and perpetuate unfairness for the impacted student.

Unfairness to the class, if kept under wraps, is a case of no one actually being harmed.

The problem: it won't stay under the wraps. People talk. Feels shitty when the scammer tells everybody how easy scamming was, when you yourself worked through the night to finish your assignment.

Re: Electron band structure in germanium, my ass (2001)

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t wear gloves when you work with HF? You are banned from my lab. 8 mil nitrile. Always check for cracks and pinholes before use.

Part of my PhD involved lots of fluoride synthesis using HF. I always used gloves (changing them very frequently). My advisor never used them for the following reason: if a droplet of HF lands on your glove you won't notice, but HF will go through the glove. If it lands on your bare hand chances are you'll notice it and wash them immediately. I could never follow his advise, but I did change gloves pretty much every…

I’m definitely in the frequent glove change camp. And PSA for anyone reading this, latex gloves are worse than useless for protection against HF. But hopefully anybody working with HF already knows that.
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