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Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

cbc.ca

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Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#361

Post by mlekoszek »

loceng wrote: post #329
mlekoszek wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain what these illegal orders were, within the purview of Sloly's role as police chief? Also, who is the second Ottawa police chief you're talking about? For that matter, who is the third one? Furthermore, on what grounds are you claiming that Sloly resigned over illegal orders, when most sources agree it was over failure to perform?

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Is this a runaround way to say you don't have any reliable sources to share with us? I'm sure if you linked them they would be very convincing.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#362

Post by GamerUncle »

mardifoufs wrote: post #331
catgary wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking about the militant separatists who had already committed mailbombings and escalated to assasinating a government official and kidnapping a foreign diplomat on Canadian soil in 1970? It’s also important to note that afterwards Quebec separatism continued to be a legitimate political movement without a terrorist wing, with parties represented in federal and provincial governments.

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Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#363

Post by rand_r »

catgary wrote: post #93
csense wrote: post #34

Patio11 has some good coverage of Trudeau's handling of the trucker protest against the government's handling of COVID-19 [1]. Whatever you think of the truckers' position or protest tactics, any punishment for their actions ought to go through the laws and court system. Trudeau instead essentially told the banking system "You can't do business with those people, they're terrorists." Patio11's words of what happened…

I think it’s worth noting that the weekend before this, local residents of Ottawa had basically “stormed” one of the trucker convoy camps to unblock a road. There were genuine concerns that the residents of Ottawa were ready to take matters into their own hands, and it would be a bloodbath. Not to mention the blockade in Alberta where they were found with guns and a pipe bomb, with their communications indicating the…

I don’t know why they couldn’t do the friggen obvious move of asking the police to unblock the roads by force, and impounding the vehicles for repeat offences. Going after bank accounts was a coward move that never made sense. If I just sat down in the middle of a subway tunnel, I would be removed by force immediately, no matter what I was protesting. They created problems for themselves by not doing the obvious solution.

Blocking a road is a fire hazard and should never have been tolerated by local police for that reason alone. You cannot impede transit in a city.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#364

Post by leptons »

nsavage wrote: post #209
csense wrote: post #34

Patio11 has some good coverage of Trudeau's handling of the trucker protest against the government's handling of COVID-19 [1]. Whatever you think of the truckers' position or protest tactics, any punishment for their actions ought to go through the laws and court system. Trudeau instead essentially told the banking system "You can't do business with those people, they're terrorists." Patio11's words of what happened…

I live in Ottawa and lived here during the convoy. Happy to answer any questions as an actual resident from anyone about my experience.

How bad were the covid restrictions in Canada that the truckers were complaining about in 2022? By 2022 most of the world had gone back to normal business-as-usual. Why were they even protesting? As an outsider looking in, it seemed like a mix of ignorance, propaganda, and stupidity made them do it.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#365

Post by lioeters »

squigz wrote: post #202
jyscao wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could endlessly go on about the economy/COL, immigration, crumbling healthcare, housing crisis, far-left ideology going mainstream, etc. But I could frame it much simpler than that - Canada, at least in cities of modest sizes and up, is rapidly transitioning from a high-trust to a low-trust society. An anecdote: my sister is more than 10 years younger than me, she's currently attending the same university as I di…

> economy, healthcare costs, housing crisis, and... far left ideology One of these things is not like the others. Could you elaborate on how 'far left ideology' relates to the others in terms of the supposed fall of our country?

Whenever I see people using the term "far left", I realize its meaning has been subverted and neutered to mean something else entirely. Same with "woke". It's very Orwellian to see how successfully these words have been distorted to obscure their nature and power.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#366

Post by krapp »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #352
staplers wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We basically have 0 rights the moment a majority decides that we don't. That's literally what a democracy is and has been.. It will always seem great until you are the minority. America had human slaves built into its democracy until the majority said otherwise. Unsure why this is so shocking.

America is specifically designed not to be this and to prevent a tyranny of the majority because original immigrants to the USA were from minority religions where they lived in Europe and had been terrorized plenty.

The Puritans were a minority group among the original settlers to the US, among the Dutch, French, Spanish, other British settlers and others. The founders and architects of the Constitution and US government were not Puritans.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#367

Post by Gormo »

staplers wrote: post #312
mardifoufs wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crazy how only Canada has used emergency powers to curtail opposition. In fact it did that twice in 50 years. And only twenty people getting their rights completely stripped because they bothered the federal government workers in Ottawa is good enough according to you? Maybe it's just because I'm part of a minority but your entire comment is exactly the issue with Canadian politics. We basically have 0 rights the mom…

We basically have 0 rights the moment a majority decides that we don't. That's literally what a democracy is and has been.. It will always seem great until you are the minority. America had human slaves built into its democracy until the majority said otherwise. Unsure why this is so shocking.

But that's the point of having constitutional limitations on political power and how it is exercised. Unfortunately, it's all to common to hear arguments that the exercise of political power should have no limitations so long as it's approved of by a quantitative majority.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#368

Post by Tiktaalik »

hmmm-i-wonder wrote: post #157
FredPret wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First past the post is awesome. I moved from a proportional-representation country to a FPTP one (Canada) and it's so much better to have a specific individual who is my MP. Back where I was born, there's a grey and anonymous party list of people selected by extremely dubious internal party political means. I never felt the slightest bit represented; and the political process was completely opaque. Now I have a dude…

FPTP has many many flaws, one being that it trends towards a defacto 2-party system due to strategic voting, especially if only one spectrum is divided (i.e. liberal/ndp, or alliance/progressive conservatives back a few decades ago). The Anonymous Party list, and opaque process are not inherent factors on any of the replacements for FPTP, in fact the only one WITH the list was supposed to be an open list, and that wa…

Ranked/alternate voting and STV shouldn't be lumped into the same bucket.

Ranked voting is a majoritarian variant of FPTP that doesn't fix many of the flaws of FPTP. There is still the flaw of "favourite betrayal" that induces a need to vote "strategically".

Single Transferable Vote involves ranking candidates but is a Proportional System.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#369

Post by TaurenHunter »

dralley wrote: post #197
TaurenHunter wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't be a conspiracy, just strategic thinking. It wouldn't be the first time in history where one party/group/individual decides to relinquish power anticipating some crisis: - Sulla was a dictator who retired before the collapse of the Roman republic. - The British handed over power to India before the communal violence escalated. - Nixon resigned to avoid the spectacle of impeachment. Someone in power may be…

>You said Trudeau was unpopular for years and yet only now he's leaving. There's unpopular and then there's unpopular . His approval rating has dropped off a cliff over the past year. His cabinet ministers have been resigning and/or openly criticizing him / asking for him to step down to save their own political careers. This article is from last September - 4 months ago. >> Darrell Bricker, a political scientist and…

No need to get emotional.

We agree that there was a good reason for Trudeau to not be in power for a while.

I am just focusing on the timing and history.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#370

Post by mardifoufs »

staplers wrote: post #312
mardifoufs wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crazy how only Canada has used emergency powers to curtail opposition. In fact it did that twice in 50 years. And only twenty people getting their rights completely stripped because they bothered the federal government workers in Ottawa is good enough according to you? Maybe it's just because I'm part of a minority but your entire comment is exactly the issue with Canadian politics. We basically have 0 rights the mom…

We basically have 0 rights the moment a majority decides that we don't. That's literally what a democracy is and has been.. It will always seem great until you are the minority. America had human slaves built into its democracy until the majority said otherwise. Unsure why this is so shocking.

I don't know of any western democracy that has something this blatant in their constitution, though I might be wrong:

>A simple majority vote in any of Canada's 14 jurisdictions may suspend the core rights of the Charter. However, the rights to be overridden must be either a "fundamental right" guaranteed by Section 2 (such as freedom of expression, religion, and association), a "legal right" guaranteed by Sections 7–14 (such as rights to liberty and freedom from search and seizures and cruel and unusual punishment) or a Section 15 "equality right".[2] Other rights such as section 6 mobility rights, democratic rights, and language rights are inviolable.

I don't think the US or France can just do a simple (parliamentary!) majority vote to override almost every right their citizens have. And this is not theoretical, the non withstanding clause is getting used more and more frequently here in Canada. And remember, since it's just a simple majority in parliament, it's only a matter of getting around 35% of the total votes. So a government that has 35% the popular vote can just suspend any right we have. Is that actually common?

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