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Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

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Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#361

Post by watwut »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #303
zilti wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being reasonable is part of being intelligent Not in the slightest, those two are quite separate.

Well the parent made sort of a case for why being reasonable is part of being intelligent, and your response was to claim there was no correlation without an argument. I happen to believe that reasonableness is part of being intelligent, by the following criteria: 1. when you are reasonable you do not make unreasonable demands that will just be troublesome and cause workflow issues because in the end they are unachie…

Alright, my argument is that parent needed to redefine what those words mean. Intelligent means having high intelligences, high IQ. That does not imply being reasonable or having emotional control. It does not imply ability to shut up when you do not know what you are talking about either.

Moreover, being able to admit mistakes (specific thing mentioned by parent) is oftentimes detrimental for you. People who do not admit them are typically rewarded, people who easily admit them punished. So, what you are looking at is "ethics even if it does not benefits me".

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#362

Post by watwut »

epolanski wrote: post #164
runamuck wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy - half a$$ your code and when it breaks - swoop in, "fix things" (actually do it right) and play the role of hero! (I've seen so-called "Rock Stars" at places I worked do this over and over)

There's a famous green text on 4chan, where a user tells he got a sysadmin job which was so boring he started crashing stuff left and right and blocking an entire office even for entire days. By the end of the day he would plug back something and come out the "servers room" saying he fixed that and get everybody's praise. Even got him two raises in the span of 18 months. That's how crazy it is. I know a variation of…

I do not think you can trust everything you find on 4chan. Yes, dysfunctional companies exists. No, someone writing something on 4chan does not imply it ever happened.

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#363

Post by hresvelgr »

josephg wrote: post #346
hresvelgr wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is good advice that’s well intentioned, but (sorry), it can be interpreted as elitist, and in a way that’s detrimental to the reader. There's nothing wrong with elitism as long as it leads to initiation rather than gatekeeping. > My god how I’ve found that working with reasonable people is so much healthier. Could not agree more. Most people can be trained well to do any job required of them. What cannot be tr…

> Most people can be trained well to do any job required of them. I really wish this were true, but especially in programming I don’t think this is the case. I’ve spent years as a programming teacher. Some of my students have been among the most wonderful, enthusiastic, hard working students you can find. And yet, despite both of us working hard for a year or more, some never develop any talent whatsoever for program…

> I really wish this were true, but especially in programming I don’t think this is the case.

I should have made my prior assumptions clear. The "most people" I'm referring to are CS graduates or people with IT diplomas and the percentage among those who are trainable to a capacity of competence in most companies are roughly 70%.

> Perpetuating the lie that all our brains have an equal capacity to program is a terribly cruel injustice. Some students would be much better served by finding another career that they can excel at.

When I was still a uni student I used to be a CS tutor in a help desk setting and I especially remember one guy who used to come in a lot. He had a really great attitude despite being humbled by the fundamentals. He used to repeat to me: "Sometimes you have to ask for help when you need it." After that semester I didn't see him again. I also remember a particularly annoying guy who used to come in and waste my time and the other tutor's by bringing in a problem and then solving it himself within seconds of sitting down just so he could talk about how he solved it and how much he knew. The world is not a fair place.

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#364

Post by alsetmusic »

Reminds me of the millennium problem. There was a post on the large forum asking if that issue was over-hyped because we didn't see the world crumble. The top response was that it was handled because we threw a lot of money at the problem. I tend to think that was right, but there's no way I know how to verify.

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#365

Post by wiseowise »

watwut wrote: post #362
epolanski wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a famous green text on 4chan, where a user tells he got a sysadmin job which was so boring he started crashing stuff left and right and blocking an entire office even for entire days. By the end of the day he would plug back something and come out the "servers room" saying he fixed that and get everybody's praise. Even got him two raises in the span of 18 months. That's how crazy it is. I know a variation of…

I do not think you can trust everything you find on 4chan. Yes, dysfunctional companies exists. No, someone writing something on 4chan does not imply it ever happened.

> No, someone writing something on 4chan does not imply it ever happened.

Neither does it imply that it never happened.

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#366

Post by dormento »

Jtsummers wrote: post #107
actionfromafar wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For extra points, keep the sane solution in a secret source file, then implement a compiler which generates the obfuscated spaghetti. :-P

I kind of did that once. For a proprietary language that didn't support functions and had very limited support for loops (mostly labels and gotos, it is sold for way too much per seat for a niche industry and the language and implementation are awful). I needed to implement something that was too tedious to write out by hand (~1500 lines of this nonsense) so I made a Python program that spit out the code I needed. Th…

MUMPS is a hoot isn't it.

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#367

Post by wiseowise »

scioto wrote: post #324
WalterBright wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm the only one who notices people whose work "just works". Those people are solid gold.

Well, if it "just works," then it wasn't that hard to do anyway. No raise for you.

Your comment got me irrationally mad, until I picked up sarcasm. Thanks.

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#369

Post by wiseowise »

godelski wrote: post #83
runamuck wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy - half a$$ your code and when it breaks - swoop in, "fix things" (actually do it right) and play the role of hero! (I've seen so-called "Rock Stars" at places I worked do this over and over)

I don't think you're wrong, but god what a waste of time. Can't we just fix the actual problem?

How?

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#370

Post by phone8675309 »

jqcoffey wrote: post #190
wolverine876 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life and its rewards aren't perfect. Work with honest, intelligent people; genuinely do your best; your days will be much better and the odds will be with you.

> Work with honest, intelligent people This is good advice that’s well intentioned, but (sorry), it can be interpreted as elitist, and in a way that’s detrimental to the reader. I am no way suggesting that this is the intention or belief of the parent, but while I’ve got more miles on my odometer than I’d prefer, they’ve informed me that “reasonable” is better than “intelligent.” My god how I’ve found that working wi…

People known for being purely highly reasonable people know that they don't know everything and aren't afraid to learn and be humble and are often a net positive.

People known for being purely highly intelligent people often think they know it all and are often a net drain.

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