Earlier quoted context omitted.
346 people died in two similar crashes of two Boeing 747 Max planes. Boing and the FAA initially cast the blame on supposedly lower standards at the Indonesian and Ethiopian airlines operating the planes, but this was completely unsupported and incorrect speculation. Poor processes at Boeing and the FAA were in fact responsible. Unfortunately the incorrect narrative has persisted.
Sure, but there are really two questions: 1) Do we believe that the issues that caused those two crashes were not sufficiently dealt with, such that they might recur? 2) Do we believe that there are other issues that could cause catastrophic failures that could result in further deaths? I feel pretty safe in saying "no" for #1. #2 is harder to answer. So far the new issues found are unlikely to cause further deaths,…
More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback
361–370 of 454 posts
Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback
#362Earlier quoted context omitted.
> domestic flyers in the U.S. deserve something better than a 1967 design. Or maybe the market has spoken. Similar to how people complain about lack of legroom but proceed to book with airlines that have less legroom because it's cheaper, they're happy to fly on 1967 design planes to save a buck.
The market has spoken only in the sense that air travel used to be prohibitively expensive for the vast majority of people, and now it isn't. For many trips, there are no reasonable alternatives to air travel. If you live in New York and really want to treat your kids to a trip to Disney World in Florida, you can drive, and can take a train/bus, but you'll be burning a significant amount of your precious time off wor…
10 years ago I would fly a lot of out of the airport in Ithaca which had good connections to hubs at PHL, DTW and IAD which could get you anywhere.
Today the ITH airport looks close to dead, the only flights are to NYC, one to EWR where I've had to exit and then re-enter security every time I've made a connection there. It's almost unthinkable that I'd take the plane to NYC if I was actually going to NYC because bus service is highly competitive to to the city. Although there are no longer national carriers like Greyhound and Shortline (going to Detroit is hard now) but for the point-to-point route there are numerous buses at different price points some of which are budget like the Chinatown bus and others are premium like the bus that stops at the Cornell Club.
I can find something positive in losing our local airport in that SYR has greatly expanded and now has numerous low-cost and ultra-low cost carriers. For once I can get on a plane and know absolutely it won't be a 737. I can fly Jetblue to LA for less than it ever cost on Delta.
Yet I can point to many signs that the industry has not been thinking clearly or that the choices it has been offering people are not real. I'd point as exhibit #1 the experience you'll have boarding a plane on American Airlines at their hub at PHL where they'll spend 20 minutes reading from a very long and complicated list of who is allowed to board in the plane under what order under whatever circumstances. Turns out there is a definite hierarchy for all the credit cards you might have with American Airlines or with some airline that got bought by American Airliners not to mention many different levels you can be in the frequent flier program, many kinds of tickets, etc.
We know if they just boarded the plane outside in we would all be on our way a few minutes earlier and it would not demand so much of the staff boarding us and they might have fewer cases of staff rage quitting because they are being abused like this, etc. But instead it's an important opportunity to rub the average traveller's nose in shit, prove how little worth they have compared to other people's in the airline's eyes, etc.
Before 2008, airlines offered just economy and first class on domestic routes, refusing to sell you anything a little bit more expensive that would be just a little bit better because they didn't want to create competition for first class. The proliferation of Economy+ and other service tiers after the financial crisis was actually a sign of sanity, of the industry getting more flexible. Still the major airlines form a cartel where they won't compete for better service in economy because they couldn't afford to give up a single first class flyer to a more humane coach.
Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback
#363Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think describing Elon as a small-e engineer (not designing powertrains, but at least understanding them) is accurate, and saying that an an engineering-first mindset is important for companies like Boeing and SpaceX would ring true. Engineering background is different than engineering mindset.
What criteria are we using to evaluate this? If the anecdotes are accurate, and based on your own description, it seems Elon Musk is a CEO who makes an effort to thoroughly grasp the products his company develops. That's commendable. This doesn't necessarily make him even a small-e engineer, even in the context of the broader definitions used today. It certainly doesn't make him "someone of engineering lineage," as t…
> It's also certainly not clear that Elon has an engineering-first mindset
If A, then B.
Struggle with definitions all we want, Boeing needs a dose of Musk's attitude towards engineering and manufacturing. It is the most important thing they do, and I don't think the C-suite understands that. That's the most distilled version of what I'm saying. Musk is the best recent example of this attitude, but Henry Ford is an excellent older example.
Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback
#364Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unfortunately no. He now adopted the "admit the problem and fix it" attitude because he was "caught", before that was business as usual for Boeing. It was/is more a "don't ask, don't tell", dump the risk on other separate entities/companies and cross your fingers because we need to get those planes out of the assembly line as fast and cheaply as possible no matter what. Boeing is and has been under pressure, but it's…
>Unfortunately Boeing always has a sweet defense contract waiting to compensate any "rough year", so they keep fucking around. And because once airlines have their fleets locked into a specific airplane brand, swapping it for the competition is almost impossible without crazy expense, so they coasted on this vendor lock in for decades knowing their existing customers have no choice but to keep buying their planes. An…
Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback
#365Earlier quoted context omitted.
For what it's worth, in "Flying Blind", the book written about the first round of 737 max issues, the author has a pretty negative outlook on Calhoun as being mostly aligned with Muilenburg. > Robison, however, finds little reason for optimism. While Boeing has now accepted responsibility for one of the crashes as part of a settlement, no one at the company besides Forkner has been charged with a crime. Muilenburg wa…
Can ELI5 why do investors (owners of the company) accept CEO's pay packages that involve golden parachutes? It doesn't make sense to me (I mean, it might in case of offensive takeovers, but who's gonna take over Boeing?!)
The world is not overflowing with people who can even theoretically lead a $77bn company and will be acceptable candidates in the eyes of the board/shareholders. So you will need to pay accordingly if you want one.
It's like wondering why pro sports teams give megabucks guaranteed contracts to superstars. There aren't a lot of them and there is a lot of money at stake when it comes to running a successful pro sports team. So they cost a lot of money to acquire.
I am by no means defending this. Whether or not one thinks there are better alternatives to capitalism, it's hard to deny that capitalism produces some pretty crap outcomes.
Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback
#366Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm glad you have the financial stability to be able to take that (IMO admirable) principled stance, but I think it's unreasonable to expect that's the case for everyone, or even most people.
I'm glad you're ok with killing and injuring others so you don't have to face the discomfort of finding another job. I've quit jobs on principle twice. No safety net, no savings. Just a belief I would be better off without that job. Turns out, I was right.
You should grow up and realize not everyone is the same. So you've rage quit twice out of "principles". Great. What changed at the company you left? Some would rightfully call you a quitter for not seeing through with the changes.
We can all have views on either end of this, but it doesn't make any of us RIGHT.
Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback
#367Earlier quoted context omitted.
What criteria are we using to evaluate this? If the anecdotes are accurate, and based on your own description, it seems Elon Musk is a CEO who makes an effort to thoroughly grasp the products his company develops. That's commendable. This doesn't necessarily make him even a small-e engineer, even in the context of the broader definitions used today. It certainly doesn't make him "someone of engineering lineage," as t…
> If the anecdotes are accurate > It's also certainly not clear that Elon has an engineering-first mindset If A, then B. Struggle with definitions all we want, Boeing needs a dose of Musk's attitude towards engineering and manufacturing. It is the most important thing they do, and I don't think the C-suite understands that. That's the most distilled version of what I'm saying. Musk is the best recent example of this…
If Elon's thoroughly understands the products his companies develop, he has an engineering-first mindset? That logic would also apply to many CEOs we wouldn't consider "engineering-first" CEOs.
> Struggle with definitions all we want,
For me, this is the only discussion. My focus is not at all on whether Elon would be a good fit for Boeing. I don't give a shit about that conversation.
Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback
#368Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can ELI5 why do investors (owners of the company) accept CEO's pay packages that involve golden parachutes? It doesn't make sense to me (I mean, it might in case of offensive takeovers, but who's gonna take over Boeing?!)
It's fairly fundamental capitalism, right? The world is not overflowing with people who can even theoretically lead a $77bn company and will be acceptable candidates in the eyes of the board/shareholders. So you will need to pay accordingly if you want one. It's like wondering why pro sports teams give megabucks guaranteed contracts to superstars. There aren't a lot of them and there is a lot of money at stake when i…
Plus everything op said about capitalism and market.
Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback
#369Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can ELI5 why do investors (owners of the company) accept CEO's pay packages that involve golden parachutes? It doesn't make sense to me (I mean, it might in case of offensive takeovers, but who's gonna take over Boeing?!)
> why do investors (owners of the company) accept CEO's pay packages that involve golden parachutes My understanding is that this is seen as a cost of acquiring the right expertise. “Pay peanuts, get monkeys” kinda thing. They want the best of the best, and according to their perception these people can do a number of things with their time. Why would they work on this thing instead of their own thing, or a number of…
The shareholders would be better off if they promised a $800m incentives-based / performance-based package (e.g. stock options etc.) than promising $80m if the CEO performance sucks.
And any CEO rejecting this offer, is a huge red flag.
Re: More misdrilled holes on 737 MAX in latest setback
#370Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Unfortunately Boeing always has a sweet defense contract waiting to compensate any "rough year", so they keep fucking around. And because once airlines have their fleets locked into a specific airplane brand, swapping it for the competition is almost impossible without crazy expense, so they coasted on this vendor lock in for decades knowing their existing customers have no choice but to keep buying their planes. An…
That doesn't sound likely. They can wait for existing planes to age out and then buy a competitor's planes. For many reasons including fuel efficiency, when an airline retires a plane they are not going to replace it with the exact same plane. So some levels of pilot retraining is expected.