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DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

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Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#361

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

hartator wrote: post #119

To be honest, requiring an ID and a proof of vaccination to attend was against the anonymity principle of the convention in the first place.

That was only for a single event. DEFCON no longer requires proof of vaccination or ID.

And as the other commenter said, the information wasn't recorded.

Also, the majority of DEFCON attendees no longer care about being anonymous. It's not this secret underground thing. Many employers pay for their security staff to go to DEFCON. For a few years now, you can even pre-pay for your ticket online with a credit card which makes getting reimbursed for your ticket a fuckton easier. Also means you don't have to carry $500 in cash.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#362

Post by anon23908203 »

snarfy wrote: post #312
mrandish wrote: post #4

I suspect Caesar's dropped DEF CON because the DEF CON attendees likely have a fairly low "avg revenue per attendee" yield because fewer of them gamble compared to the avg Vegas conference attendee. They also probably spend less on high-end restaurant dining and bar drinking inside the hotel. Since the pandemic Vegas has had a pretty strong resurgence in general and this may be a sign that Caesar's is doing well enou…

I attended an earlier DEF CON (5 or 6?) where the attendees: 1) Hacked the in-circuit TV system and broadcast their own pirate show 2) Gained roof access and removed the satellite dish 3) Spilled hookah coals onto the bed starting a fire 4) drove the janitor's golf cart into the pool and that is only what I witnessed firsthand. I can only imagine what else went on. Maybe the attendees low spend was only part of the e…

I attended Def Con 7 and witnessed people pick the lock of a utility room on my hotel floor and change the phone wiring.

Also, I was a 17 year old girl at the time, and I felt sexually threatened several times during the event. That is the only place I have visited where I would make a statement of that nature.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#363

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

wkat4242 wrote: post #136
elicksaur wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of comment on HN is always fascinating. Is it just simple trolling? Is it cosplay? Is it someone new (or old) to “hacking” sincerely trying to “no true scotsman” attending def con?

I have to say as a European the choice of location has always puzzled me. Corporate interests basically run las vegas, I find it a really odd choice for such a free-thinking anti-establishment community.

DEFCON needs a HUGE convention space. The size alone rules out the majority of possible locations.

Then comes the cost. August in Las Vegas is off-peak season which helps keep the cost down. Anywhere in Silicon Valley (or really anywhere in California) would be insanely expensive.

There's also convenience of travel. Las Vegas is such a huge tourist city that it makes getting flights there cheap and easy no matter where in the world you're coming from. My first time going to DEFCON was in 2017 and my flight from Portland OR was only a hair over $200.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#364

Post by collyw »

snarfy wrote: post #312
mrandish wrote: post #4

I suspect Caesar's dropped DEF CON because the DEF CON attendees likely have a fairly low "avg revenue per attendee" yield because fewer of them gamble compared to the avg Vegas conference attendee. They also probably spend less on high-end restaurant dining and bar drinking inside the hotel. Since the pandemic Vegas has had a pretty strong resurgence in general and this may be a sign that Caesar's is doing well enou…

I attended an earlier DEF CON (5 or 6?) where the attendees: 1) Hacked the in-circuit TV system and broadcast their own pirate show 2) Gained roof access and removed the satellite dish 3) Spilled hookah coals onto the bed starting a fire 4) drove the janitor's golf cart into the pool and that is only what I witnessed firsthand. I can only imagine what else went on. Maybe the attendees low spend was only part of the e…

Sounds pretty fun. Maybe not if you are an organizer though.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#365

Post by araes »

Lammy wrote: post #38
nodesocket wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doubtful, I'm sure it's related to the constant attacks against their infrastructure they must defend against (let's be honest, I'm sure Caesars is not defending successfully). The juice just ain't worth the squeeze. They have a business to run, and the risk of having a bunch of drunken and high hackers who happen to be the best in the world running amuck is not their idea of a good corporate event.

Dunno if it has anything to do with it but they did get haxx0red last year at the same time as MGM, except Caesars paid up and MGM didn't. Hotel room cards, casino play cards, etc were down for ten days at a bunch of the MGM-owned properties (a.k.a. the half of the Strip not owned by Caesars) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM_Resorts_International#Las_... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-13/caesars-e..…

Seems mildly plausible for a connection.

About a month after the conference would be enough time to discredit an obvious connection to the conference, while still making use of security breaches that might have been found during the conference. Most security experts know you have to abandon security hopes if you give the hardware to the user with direct access. And with a conference of DEF CON's size, you only need 1% malicious actors for 300 tragedy of the commons results.

MGM's not that far away on the strip for somebody to find a security exploit, and then start checking every nearby casino to see if it works at those casinos. Found a $1 million exploit? Might walk a few blocks to see if it can turn into a $10 million exploit. Non-negligible risk from a casino perspective.

Average casino-win per customer is usually ~$100/admission. [1] Three days [2] gambling for 30,000 = 9,000,000. Hotel stay revenue helps, yet it's usually only 25% of revenue per guest. [3] Casino visitation and attendance has also rebounded significantly in the last few years. [4]

So, higher than normal costs per attendee, attendees who believe they all spend less than normal conference participants, anecdotal stories of repeated high cost issues each year to resolve (ex: concrete poured in sinks on purpose, rooms broken into, satellite dishes stolen), increasing attendance numbers in Vegas, and a multi-$10 million slap a month afterward based on social engineering.

[1] https://www.americangaming.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/CG...

[2] https://forum.defcon.org/node/248358

[3] https://www.playusa.com/las-vegas-casino-hotel-revenue-numbe...

[4] https://gaming.library.unlv.edu/reports/national_monthly.pdf

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#366

Post by tekla »

queuebert wrote: post #357
tekla wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, counter-culture is counter-culture. It was meant to make normals uncomfy.

Guess what? Hotels are run by normals.

And they are perfectly fine with the crowd. I've chatted with many hotel staff and almost all of them are happy with the DC crowd. Generally tips well and are polite even when drunk, some assholes, but thats normal with any crowd.

Worst case scenario is usually they tell people to disperse, but otherwise, they always seemed to laugh when they saw shenanigans (except for people fucking with Casino machines, thats a fast way to make them mad)

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#367

Post by EricE »

killjoywashere wrote: post #105

You know, why the fuck is DEFCON in August, in Vegas? Like, you know a nice place to visit in August? Kodiak, Alaska. Portsmouth, Maine. Sydney. List of places I would never want to visit in August? Vegas. Houston. Vegas. New Orleans. Vegas. Mumbai? Maybe. Baghdad? Definitely not. Also, Vegas. My friends in Christ, why, does anyone, think Vegas is a good idea in August?

"...why, does anyone, think Vegas is a good idea in August?"

And that is precisely why DEFCON is there in August - demand is weak so prices are low. They even state as much in their FAQ.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#368

Post by user_7832 »

Onewildgamer wrote: post #150
killjoywashere wrote: post #105

You know, why the fuck is DEFCON in August, in Vegas? Like, you know a nice place to visit in August? Kodiak, Alaska. Portsmouth, Maine. Sydney. List of places I would never want to visit in August? Vegas. Houston. Vegas. New Orleans. Vegas. Mumbai? Maybe. Baghdad? Definitely not. Also, Vegas. My friends in Christ, why, does anyone, think Vegas is a good idea in August?

Mumbai will be raining buckets in August, I'd avoid that city like a plague

Seconded, as a Mumbaiker the rains are bad-annoying even for locals. Definitely not good for inexperienced tourists.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#369

Post by EasyMark »

mrandish wrote: post #4

I suspect Caesar's dropped DEF CON because the DEF CON attendees likely have a fairly low "avg revenue per attendee" yield because fewer of them gamble compared to the avg Vegas conference attendee. They also probably spend less on high-end restaurant dining and bar drinking inside the hotel. Since the pandemic Vegas has had a pretty strong resurgence in general and this may be a sign that Caesar's is doing well enou…

I think you're on to something. Most DEFCON attendees can do rough calculations in their head that their chances of coming out on top in Las Vegas is extremely unlikely, and choose just look around and buy some drinks and cheap food.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#370

Post by jstarfish »

andy800 wrote: post #275
hyperhopper wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The linq bar turned into a 24hr party after the bomb threat last year

A bomb threat last year? Hmmm, I wonder why Caesars chose not to renew the contract.

Unrelated to DEFCON, Caesars (and MGM) also got hit with ransomware.

I'm sure their insurers might not be too happy about them hosting hacker conventions these days.

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