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Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

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Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One is priced at $300 and the other is more than 10x that. I don't understand why people keep comparing the two as if they were designed with the same objectives.

Quest pro is $1,500 (albeit 8 months old ) Yes, Apple is priced quite premium but that is also their strength Apple can price at this level and still command enough sales , Meta or any other company cannot . Even at the same price point (HoloLens 2 costs the same) as Apple it is hard to imagine another headset competing. Also none of the concept headsets MZ has shown so far come close to this

Just a bit, but the $1500 price point didn't stick around for long. So really it's a $999 headset now vs $3500 "next year".

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Ew. Fat shaming is not a good look. You don’t know them. You don’t know the reasons for their weight. They very well could be using the device daily to exercise for all you know and it could be an issue with his metabolism. Or another medical condition. Or a side effect of drugs. Or literally hundreds of other reasons.

[flagged]

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#363
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they buy bottom of the barrel and, if it doesn’t work, assume that is where state of the art is. Few months back I’ve seen anecdotal posts somewhere that new generations of managers are trying to shift computing to phones and tablets because they’re “better than laptops”. No one enforces a delightfulness standard for Windows laptops, and it is creating a skewed perception.

I’m surprised we don’t have that yet. Your iPhone would make an excellent Citrix client just dock and wait for your text to show up as you type.

There was Samsung Dex. It even could run Linux. Didn’t take off so it was cancelled like 10 years ago.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#364
post #36

> They went with a higher resolution display, and between that and all the technology they put in there to power it, it costs seven times more and now requires so much energy that now you need a battery and a wire attached to it to use it. Comparing the pricing of your consumer level product to an enterprise level product is extremely disingenuous. He's clearly scared.

Is an enterprise product sitting around and watching "movies" by yourself?

You don't have to think for long to see where they will take this, and how strong it will be in corporate environments. Especially a corporate world currently jostling between in-office and work-from-home.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Wii lost its novelty pretty quickly. It really didn’t. Ring Fit Adventure, a successor to the Wii Fit titles, sold 15 million copies for the Switch. Nintendo Switch Sports sold almost 9 million. Those are solid numbers. The kind of motion control the Wii used is still used for those titles, and they’re still popular.

That's decent for single games, but overall those are low figures. These companies are aiming to have installed bases in the hundreds of millions if not billions. Active gaming will be a nice use case, but will not be the reason 40-50m people buy a headset every year.

Don't forget Just Dance. Just Dance 2 was the best selling 3rd party title for the Wii. Just Dance 3 was the 2nd best selling title of 2011, behind Call of Duty. As of 2013, Just Dance is Ubisoft's 2nd biggest franchise, behind Assassin's Creed. Teenage girls nowadays are still playing Just Dance all night at sleep overs.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We've seen this story before and it hasn't ended well for the folks in Mark's position. Is Microsoft today in a fundamentally problematic position ? Apple has the spotlight and a higher evaluation, but I'm not sure Google or Microsoft "haven't ended well". > A personal device like these headsets needs to be delightful. The number of people willing to pay for "delightful" is pretty small though. Even as today, the i…

WinCE? Windows phone? TabletPC? Their non-vertical integrated devices sucked. Microsoft lost an entire platform, and yes, that was a problem (they’ve since recovered with other bets).

You could say iPod, xServe, AirPort or Pippin in the same vein. Companies lose/get out of entire markets and move to others, that's a natural (and probably healthy) thing.

Otherwise, I forgot about TabletPC, hut given they have the Surface line now, is it a failure ?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#367
post #151

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Well, I am just really interested in the idea of taking a spatial computer headset device around with me, and doing work (writing software, so think VS Code/JetBrains/Xcode) in a large spatial environment instead of a laptop with a single small screen. I did know that the Quest Pro would not live up to that task (and it doesn't), but I wanted to see how close you could get today for $1500 (now, $1000). I also do boxi…

> The new Apple gizmo looks way better for programming and work like that Based on Apple's track record, they're going to disallow development on the Vision like they do for all iOS/iPad devices.

I don't think so. For one thing, they actually want you to develop your Vision OS app while using the Vision Pro. They had a session at WWDC where they highlighted that you can open a floating 4K resolution Xcode window inside the spatial environment, and have your app floating next to it.

(This does require a Mac to be also present, though.)

Secondly, none of these devices have anywhere close to enough computing power to make doing builds on them directly feasible — at least not for most coding work, including the work I do.

So I want to develop using the model popularized by tools like VS Code's remote development extensions or GitHub Codespaces. I want the headset to render all the editors and other windows locally. I want the device to connect to my mechanical keyboard and mouse, so that I can do all my normal coding stuff. But the machine where the code actually is, where the build is actually done, and where the local dev server or similar runs -- all remote.

This is actually the workflow I now prefer even on desktops and laptops, now that the tooling is so good. But for a spatial computing headset device, this will have to be the main model.

And while I also am not at all a fan of Apple's limiting what we can do on our devices the way they do, putting that aside you can already do this workflow in iPad. You can use CodeSpaces in the browser, but there is a cool native app called Blink[1] that lets you use your own hardware as the build machine.

I use a large and high-spec Linux workstation with 4 large monitors in my day-to-day work. But with VS Code remote, when I have to travel with my laptop, I just connect to the Linux workstation (via Tailscale in my case, but there are various options) and use the code editor locally on the laptop, but the CLI, build, etc is happening on the remote machine.

On a laptop, this works great. It is better than the regular workflow of doing it all on the laptop, because the tooling (if you use VS Code, anyway, but others are also working on this) is so good and the remote build machine is so much more powerful than a laptop. It also lets you just switch to a new device whenever you want without worrying about having to commit your changes first. So I can go to the office or just a different room of my house and just sit down at whatever computer is available and pick up where I left off.

But I've also done this using both the Quest Pro and iPad, just to check in with the state of the art on those devices. Both of them can do it. The Quest sucks in lots of ways (clunky OS, low-quality passthrough of the real environment, glitches). The iPad actually works fine, except teven the largest iPad Pro is a laughably tiny monitor to work on. (YMMV tho... if you are one of those "I love small screen!" people then this workflow works fine, and an iPad works as well as a laptop.)

For me, Quest Pro and iPad aren't good enough. But I want to do this workflow on a headset device, and Vision Pro looks promising.

Anyway, my point here is that even if Apple does make weird restrictions about being able to use dev tools locally on the device, that won't prevent it from doing the workflow I am interested in.

[1] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/blink-shell-build-code/id15948...

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly doubt it, maybe in a few years when cost of the components needed to build a Vision headset decrease. There is a lot of expensive tech in the Vision Pro. You have two processors, 4K eye pieces, expensive sensors, expensive cameras, expensive LIDAR. How are you suppose to build a similar product for half the price? You would have to gut a lot of features and you would end up with a completely different produc…

> The Quest 3 will outsell Vision Pro by 10x because of this. Which is perfectly fine and why Apple will eventually win - they don't need to sell a ton of units right now. Apple is going about it the right way, the same way that Tesla did with their electric cars. Eventually there will be a model 3 of the vision pro - and all that R&D they put into making it the best will pay dividends down the line. Meta simply won'…

> Meta simply won't have that experience because they just did the cheap thing targeted a small market.

Don't you see how Toyota succeeded? There are some ways to succeeding.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#369
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a high end Macbook Pro with a matching price tag and additional features. For a device that is aimed at developers and early adopters, it makes sense. In a year I expect to see the Apple Vision Air for less than half the price while the OS evolves.

I highly doubt it, maybe in a few years when cost of the components needed to build a Vision headset decrease. There is a lot of expensive tech in the Vision Pro. You have two processors, 4K eye pieces, expensive sensors, expensive cameras, expensive LIDAR. How are you suppose to build a similar product for half the price? You would have to gut a lot of features and you would end up with a completely different produc…

Here's "leaked" BOM list. There are some expensive parts but we find OLED (x2) is quite expensive. If its production scaled well, will it price down? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36022338

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#370
post #7

Just having a higher resolution alone has made Apple Vision worth talking about. By all accounts I’ve read it’s very impressive. The interface is much better on the Vision than with the Quest. I had a Quest but I stopped using it because my eyes no longer can stand to see non retina screens. Pixelization was fine 15 years ago but anymore. Wearing glasses in the Quest was a pain. My glasses fogged up too often. Implem…

An another important spec is FoV. Reviewers say that FoV is not the best but not annoying, but I don't know is it true or they just Apple's cool aid on WWDC.
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