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People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

english.elpais.com

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Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You will get a ton of denial about this but you aren't wrong. On the other hand it is really easy to not get married and not have kids. Then the equation is quite different. 40s and 50s isn't all that different than 22. I would even say better in most ways. Your vision of marriage is even kind of romantic still. The married guys I know it is more like depression because of separation and knowing the wife is fucking a…

This reads comically incel-ish. “Women know their value”, like a self-respecting man doesn’t? Why aren’t your male friends doing the same thing, then? Life doesn’t end at 40, for either sex. With/without a family, married/divorced, the choice to develop and grow as a human is always your own.

[deleted]

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. People also use the phrase "committing a traffic infraction". "Committing to each other in marriage" "Committing to a college" "Committing money to a cause" "Committing to God by accepting Jesus as your lord and savior" :D I totally understand that there's baggage to this word (suicide). Given the totality of the ending of life I feel that highlighting all of these connotations with the word "suicide" is a good…

Commit and commit to have different meanings. You do not say people committed marriage.

This is a good point.

"During his life he committed many good deeds." It is a much rarer usage, and typically less specific. Possibly grammatically incorrect as you'd generally substitute "performed" for "committed" in such a case.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably didn’t mean it this way, but that reasoning emphasizes bringing beings into this world to avoid your own bad emotions, and not so they can experience their own good ones.

Giving kids a happy childhood and setting them up for happiness and contentment is of course implied. Either way, I think the vast majority of people who are alive want to remain alive, so I never understood the sentiment that it's selfish to bring someone into the world. It's only selfish if you benefit while someone else suffers. Bringing kids into the world is a win-win, at least in the developed world where birth…

> I think the vast majority of people who are alive want to remain alive

I don't want to die because it's scary and likely painful, but I definitely would have preferred I wasn't here to begin with.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or that efforts to build these up at their age are likely to be successful in today's society? I've seen that happen -literally- hundreds, if not thousands, of times. It's usually difficult. Like, really difficult, but sometimes, it's well worth the effort. We can often help each other through the rough bits. I've known a few folks that have done pretty awful things (not getting into detail), and have recovered. Ma…

Oh sure, I know people have rebuilt their lives in 50s. But there is luck and anecdotes and there is prevailing reality. When something is difficult, it requires physical and emotional stamina to overcome. At some point, one may be unable to handle hundreds of rejections after trying to make a single casual friend in a space of years. Not lazy, or insufficiently motivated, just not able to, period. And that assumes,…

Well, I can only speak for myself, and for those in my peer group, but we regularly help each other to rebuild our lives.

It takes a community. It's not usually something we can do, on our own.

Long story, and not one for press, radio, and film.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a point, but I would submit that "desecrating the man's legacy" is a bit ... shall we say ... over-the-top ... rhetoric? I assume that you have known many, many folks like him (and like me), and are comfortable being extremely and overtly judgmental. Too bad. I looked at your GH profile, and I suspect that we'd find a lot in common.

Hacker News civility makes it more acceptable to use an over the top phrase like that, where normally I suspect he would have jumped to straightforward ones like “being a dick”.

Well, like I have said, before, I always find it fascinating, when folks in a professional venue, initiate relationships with an attack.

Not exactly sure the advantages it brings, but never a dull moment, eh?

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#366

1/3 of Canadians support assisted suiciding homeless people or people who will lose their home. Canada finds death the most appropriate solution to suffering. Doctors and administrative staff are making the recommendation directly based on financial circumstance. It's a program the govt spends money on ad marketing and growth. Sounds more like a failure of the 'state and capital' flavor society to me than something t…

Is that more or less compassionate than leaving them to die on the streets?

How about not letting them die on the streets? I thought Canada was a society.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#367
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was a commentary piece which quoted (to comment on) other sources. Almost everyone talking about this topic is at least biased, and generally (what's-the-word for "motivated to convince others as to their point-of-view"?).

Upon closer inspection, it's an exact reprint of from an article from "National Review" which is a famously conservative organization. >This was a commentary piece which quoted (to comment on) other sources. Understood. I just thought I'd point out the potential for bias because it isn't obvious at a quick read. One of the great things about HN (IMHO) is that people tend to discuss things from a more scientific persp…

>Upon closer inspection, it's an exact reprint of from an article from "National Review" which is a famously conservative organization.

Conservative? It must be wrong then! Everybody knows that only liberal sources can have correct viewpoints!

> More to the point, there is no link to this study cited in the very first paragraph. As a Canadian I've never heard of this study so was interested to take a look. Googling a bit found the results and further discussion on why the National Review interpretation of it is pretty dishonest.

Here is the study:

https://researchco.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Tables_MAiD...

The relevant question:

"At this point, only an adult with a grievous and irremediable medical condition can seek medical assistance in dying in Canada. Do you agree or disagree with allowing adults in Canada to seek medical assistance in dying because of the following reasons?"

(a) Poverty Agreeing 27% (Strongly agree 11% + Moderately agree 16%)

(b) Homelessness Agreeing 28% (Strongly agree 11% + Moderately agree 17%)

>found the results and further discussion on why the National Review interpretation of it is pretty dishonest.

Dishomest "interpretation", eh? Let's focus on the shocking raw results then, with the number agreeing with those two cases being above 1%?

(Sure, one might expect a 1% of hardcore scum being OK with the poor getting assistance to off themselves to solve their poverty/homelessness in any society. Maybe 2%. But not even Thacher would expect an above 5% agreement on that).

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#368
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>just like teenagers who think life is practically over by 40 Sorry but... it kind of is, no? You've probably got a family weighing you down so you can't travel anymore. You don't have the freedom to start new exciting ventures. You can't quit your sucky job because it supports your family. You go to parties that end at 9pm and your social gatherings consist of talking about traffic and grocery prices. You're probabl…

I'm in my 40s and felt the same way as you (more or less) at 22. Many people do wind up as you describe. On the other hand you write as if it is inevitable rather than a specific choice. You've probably got a family weighing you down so you can't travel anymore. You don't have the freedom to start new exciting ventures. Yes, you probably do have to choose between "family" and the other stuff unless you have some unus…

> Again, you can just not get married! Or do some kind of poly/open/whatever relationship if that's your thing. Or be asexual. Or be so undesirable that nobody wants to nestle down with you and saddle you with a family. Or just find some sort of ethical way of getting what you need from sex workers. (That last one may be tricky)

IMO any of those can be tricky. Relationships in general are, at any part of the spectrum, including a lack of them.

Poly/open/casual/whatever isn't easy unless your partner (or potential partners) also wants to be in one of those. Leaving an existing relationship for one of those probably isn't easy (unless it's meaningless), and can be anything but if one is already married with kids. Non-exclusive relationships may also need to deal with potential feelings of jealousy etc. in a different way than exclusive ones, and again, it's not down to just oneself.

One probably doesn't really choose to be asexual either, and I'd wager that trying to make such a choice is generally unhealthy. And if you actually are asexual but want an otherwise romantic relationship, finding one (where both are satisfied) is probably harder than it would be more conventionally.

Most people (or all of us?) have mutually conflicting desires and needs for their relationships. That makes relationships tricky in general. It's probably even more so for someone who's less comfortable socially or with themselves than you would seem to be.

I don't think it's always even possible, psychologically or emotionally, for everyone to solve those conflicting needs and desires in a satisfying way.

It sounds quite cynical to see marriage or long-term relationships largely as a burden, and seeing the possibilities can be an antidote for that for some people. But trying to make it out as everything being possible and choices that you can just make feels a bit like it can trivialize the difficulty of actually doing it.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a terrible experience you are going through. I hope it makes a turn for the better, and soon. I'm curious what you mean by one of your closing comments: >Still trying to answer "why won't someone help me ?" without sounding trite and jaded Not looking to debate, but genuinely curious.

Because I agree with her that she's not getting the help she needs, but I don't know where else to go. - Her PCP seems useless - basically a glorified project manager for other expert opinions, and the time taken to get appointments with these experts is straining. - Going to urgent care, or doing an 'online Dr visit' just gets the advice to go to ER instead, because of the breathing. - Going to ER (which we have, se…

Can you find a new PCP? One that may not be a good family doctor but can coordinate care.

You are probably already doing it, but I have heard that it is really important to have advocate when patient can't organize themselves. If you can, go to appointments, take notes, and ask lots of questions. Push on uncertainty until get tests and answers. Try and solve separate problems, like Ativan dependency, so can focus on the big one and she feels better. One question I had is what does the treatment for raising sodium too quickly look like and is it worth doing even if the MRI was negative.

Also, I vaguely remember reading about group of doctors that solve medical mysteries. I found an article, https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/07/health/patients-medical-m..., but not sure one I read.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#370
post #157
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>just like teenagers who think life is practically over by 40 Sorry but... it kind of is, no? You've probably got a family weighing you down so you can't travel anymore. You don't have the freedom to start new exciting ventures. You can't quit your sucky job because it supports your family. You go to parties that end at 9pm and your social gatherings consist of talking about traffic and grocery prices. You're probabl…

I'm in my 60s. The only downsides I see are a bit of stiffness in the morning and putting up with know-it-all 22-year-olds.

Sorry for how my comment may have come off. I genuinely don't know what happy 40 year olds live like because I had a dysfunctional household. My impressions are based on what I hear from people around me like colleagues as well as social media. And it's usually miserable stuff.
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