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Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

bloomberg.com

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Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#361

Post by sliken »

labcomputer wrote: post #360
sliken wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3%? M2 = 100GB/sec M2 pro = 200GB/sec M2 max = 400GB/sec M1 Extreme = 800GB/sec. Most x86-64 laptops and desktops are in the 60-80GB/sec range. Some desktop or server only chip (threadripper, epyc, Xeons, a few intel workstation chips) have 150 or 300GB/sec. 400GB/sec vs 80GB/sec is quite a bit more than 3%, and is available in the mbp 14" or mbp 16".

That’s because Apple Silicon has a stupid-wide memory bus. It has little/nothing to do with the characteristics of the memory chips shipped in the box. They just put more modules in parallel than on x86. Apple could ship cheaper memory modules with the same stupid-wide bus and achieve nearly the same performance for a fraction of the cost. And that’s what I want. Give me 4x as much DDR4 on the same 1024 bit wide bus,…

Stupid wide? Pins, memory controllers, and traces (and layers) on motherboards aren't cheap. Apple just decided that the paying memory bandwidth was worth it. Is there some reason why you think the extra memory bandwidth was stupid?

Sure it's easy to ask for 1024 bit wide memory bus, but it's not cheap. Done with the traditional x86-64 method you'll need two 280 watt CPUs (a few $k each), on a $1k motherboard, with 24 dimms, a 1kw power supply, ear plugs, and at least $10k. The minimum physical size is going to be substantial since you need two large CPU sockets (6096 pins each), 24 dimm sockets, and of course a substantial number of fans, dimms, and power supply. Even managing airflow over 800 watts or so of chips isn't going to be easy, cheap, or quiet.

Because of the above size, cost, noise, and heat it's targeted at enterprise and cloud folks with the related cost, service contract, and sales pipelines.

Or you could buy an Apple studio and hide it somewhere, you'll likely not be able to find it by listening for it.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#362

Post by sliken »

labcomputer wrote: post #359
wtallis wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you get that "3% lower memory bandwidth" figure from? LPDDR5 is running at 6400 MT/s on at least Apple and Intel platforms, and the fastest DDR5 SODIMMs I've seen so far are 5600MT/s: 12.5% slower, assuming equal bus width (only true for the base M1/2 processors).

3%, 12% Potato, potato. It’s a small spec performance difference for a huge price difference. Meanwhile, for actual real-world workloads, not spilling to swap (because you have enough memory) will result in real-world performance that is many times (even an order of magnitude) better. Even with Apples blazing fast SSDs. Oh, and you can also spec a cheaper SSD because you don’t need one that can take a bajillion write…

Sure, that's 3%, but what about shipping 2x, 4x, and 8x as wide memory systems, largely enabled by not using industry standard dimms.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#363

Post by makeitdouble »

fomine3 wrote: post #352
makeitdouble wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are worldwide shipment numbers.

Other countries may also gave a check to people like the US. I got 100kJPY ($900) from Japan govt. Also everyone stop travelling in 2020.

Didn't most of these happen before the introduction of the M1 macs ?

The first model hit retail at the end of 2020, and we were already way deep into the covid/wfo cycle, with people buying any laptop available at the time to cover for the transition.

In that respect, the introduction of M1 machines looks to me to happen way after the dust settled on the gov incentives front.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#364

Post by traveler01 »

api wrote: post #223
traveler01 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally Apple users don't update their computers too often, and when they released the M1 models a lot of people had models pre-2016 that needed upgrading (since pos-2016 models sucked balls). So, part of that unusual demand was also customers finally upgrading their old MacBooks.

I mega-splurged on the crazy M1 Max MacBook Pro and can't see needing to upgrade this beast for... a while.

Yeah truth be told I consider that Apple should've waited atleast another year for the M2 Max. Maybe improve it a little further since even the M1 Max it's way ahead of anything in the laptop market right now.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#365

Post by mihaaly »

somewhereoutth wrote: post #264
mihaaly wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird having an insightful factual beginning of a sentence just to conclude with weak and hugely incomplete speculation ignoring the bulk of the picture (Apple's all other products, what actually needed actually entails, ...).

Apple have been wildly successful in selling Rolls-Royces to the masses. In pretty much all categories they've entered, Apple are considered to be the premium brand. However the masses generally don't need the level of engineering that Apple products typically feature - people have been compelled into forking out for it in order to status match with their peers (e.g. the green/blue text thing). Now times are tight, t…

The point was that other Apple products than Mac sales not change out of global trends, also not much. Hence the root comment about people going away from Apple products is factually wrong.

(I can agree with several other of your auxiliary topic comments)

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#366

Post by andromeduck »

senttoschool wrote: post #349
dwighttk wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>assuming they want to release a new gen every year Why would one assume that?

* An Apple executive said recently that they want to release a huge upgrade every year. They don't want to hold back.[0] * M1 used A14. M2 used A15 (even though A16 was already out). This seems to suggest that Apple wants to make use of every A series iteration. The A series gets a new gen every year. * It seems to make sense business-wise that the base M will at least get upgraded once a year. It isn't too much more…

I'd be surprised if annual releases were a high priority given the lower volume vs iPhone and the lack of annual release cadence expectations for macs in general. 16-18 month cadence is the norm right now - just look at Nvidia for example.

Re: Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

#367

Post by ask_b123 »

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #29
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #18

How many people actually need the perf of an M1 or M2-based laptop? I see a lot of excited stuff about running ML models on Apple silicon, but not much about how it benefits ordinary tech users running compile workloads or whatever, and nothing at all about people running standard applications. The hardware is great, I'm just not convinced that the price/performance delivers a big enough market.

It was pointed out to me about a decade ago that is actually the “normies” who need higher-performance computers than seasoned professionals. Folks who know how computers work tend to subliminally optimize it, knowing when go quit apps, how to manage windows, patience with processes that logically take extra time, etc. It’s the neophytes and dilettantes that run all their apps at the same time, have dozens of windows…

> have dozens of windows with hundreds of tabs open all the time

Sigh, seems like I'm a dilettante.

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