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Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

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361–370 of 809 posts

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#361

Hi Chris, good luck with your startup. I'm in the market for a natural gas --> heat pump remodel and expect to be signing a contractor's proposal today. I'm looking to put in a 4 ton Mitsubishi hyper heat system with an air handler to replace the gas furnace and four minisplits for the cold spots in the house. I live in the PNW. The Mitsubishi remotes and thermostats do indeed look like they're going to be terrible,…

Thanks for the feedback! If you feel ok saying, how much was the quote for this install? Do you place any value in indoor air quality?

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#362

I installed a Mr. Cool DIY mini split in my home for 2 rooms and so far it’s been great. That initial foray was a bit of an experiment. I’d like to just replace my central air now with a ducted heat pump but I haven’t found a good solution that doesn’t cost a ridiculous amount for a professional to install. I think you have a big problem with selling direct to homeowners. Most HVAC companies will not touch a homeowne…

Your point on HVAC companies not servicing homeowner-purchased systems is worth underlining. In our case, we need some duct work to fit a 2-ton Mr. Cool system to our existing ducts. Every licensed HVAC contractor/company we've contacted has refused to touch any part of consumer purchased system, citing liability issues (context: Bay Area, CA).

i am thinking to replace one of the hvacs with ducted mr.cool. just curious, what was the needed duct work ?

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#363
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thoughts too. Local heating/cooling should not be tied to the cloud period. If it doesn't use the normal wiring people already have it's a hard pass from me.

I agree. Use standardized wiring and let me control it from a $100 smart thermostat that i can replace if it becomes obsolete. If i want HomeAssistant integration, ill buy an HA-compatible thermostat. I dont want an expensive HVAC system to be in a walled garden of its own.

You lose about 30% efficiency using "standardized wiring" with an inverter heat pump instead of a communicating thermostat, because running a heat pump at 33% power continuously instead of 100% power 20 minutes of every hour results in a COP about 30% higher.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#364
How will you compete with Goodman/Daikin and needing lineset runs with usually high voltage work and panel upgrades that sometimes come with converting to a heat pump.

If you don't use 24V AC controls i don't think it would take off with any installers and you seriously limit and then hinder yourself needing way more customer support.

What refrigerants are you considering as there is more environmental stuff coming out killing 410A.

You will be competing against installers that can offer 10 year warranties (Bosch, Mitsubishi) without any of the backing of a large company saying parts will still be available and that is a big worry with start ups, at least when nest got bought you can still run systems without the cloud or could swap to any 24V controls system.

I used to be an installer but am out of the trades now and I think you'd kind of off the mark with your shortcomings to the current experience, the biggest issue you're gonna find is duct leakage and contractors skipping out on the testing and then the old vac n run and the new construction builders literally will want whatever is cheapest and gets them through the build fastest (80% gas single stage with a empty coil box is hella common)

I hope you have seen the variety of retro installs that will need to be done as there are still lots of oil burners out there.

Honestly i've almost talked myself into the idea that I should be working on this project. LMAO.

Please tell me you aren't going to rely on internet and at least use local RTD sensors at least.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#365
Small suggestion for your preorder buttons: the gray/white combo doesn't have great contrast and might be perceived as being in a disabled state. I'd recommend black/white on light backgrounds and white/black on dark backgrounds to make them fit with the (very nice) industrial design theme.

Our building (Western Canada) has a heat pump system and it's very capable of keeping the apartment comfortable in all seasons as long as your definition of summer cooling isn't "like being inside a fridge". Great to see the tech being developed for mass adoption.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#367
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heat pump passion is kind of a thing for some reason! 200-year old heat pump technology is back - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34846762 - Feb 2023 (205 comments) How a heat pump works - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34739375 - Feb 2023 (324 comments) Heat pumps are defying Maine’s winters and oil industry pushback - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34708161 - Feb 2023 (174 comments) Heat pumps of t…

> Heat pump passion is kind of a thing for some reason! Because they are throwing money at it. Billions. All policy driven, not science-driven. If every home in the US switched to electric powered HVAC heat-pump systems we'd have huge blackouts in every city. Our power grid and power generation systems are not ready for this at all. Add electric cars to the mix and the scenario gets much darker (no pun intended, ligh…

You're right about switching everything over all at once. That would be a big step change in grid load! But large scale heat pump adoption is going to take a decade or more, and in the meantime we can work to build out the grid, and also on technologies that make load shifting more feasible.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#368
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The software is certainly a concern, but I would also heavily emphasize the ability to get spare parts and service quickly. If your heat goes out in the middle of winter you don't want to wait weeks for spare parts, or be unable to get them at all if the company goes out of business.

Yes, making spare parts and service work is super important. We'll likely set up regional distribution points for spare parts so anything critical can be easily sent next day.

What about labor? I'm pretty handy but there are definitely parts of my HVAC system where I'd be unable/unwilling to DIY it. I currently have a local HVAC contractor on-retainer for same-day emergency appointments - and honestly I don't think I'd be willing to consider anything less since my current heat pump is my exclusive source of heating in this house.

I'm in a temperate climate so there's little actual danger, but the idea of freezing/roasting my butt off for multiple days to wait for parts/labor is deeply unattractive.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#369
post #195
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HA user here as well, having a non-locked down API at minimum (i.e. not actively trying to stop folks using it), through to an open and documented api (would be great), through to open firmware (would be best) and or releasing your own integration for HA would likely get you those kinda customers.

If people have a preferred way of integrating their devices, like home assistant, I'd want to make that possible for people to do with Electric Air. Re the sizing question - this is a part of the site that needs improvement. 12kbtu is 1 ton. The 48kbtu system is a 4ton system, but rated at 5F, if you're in a more temperate climate, two of these will likely have plenty of capacity for you. It's also likely that your c…

As someone about to be in the market for something like this, propriety lockout is a complete deal breaker for me.

/2¢

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#370
You should give some thought to offering an AC-DC power supply. Being able to dedicate several solar panels directly to heating or cooling might get people out of a regulatory bind with crazy interconnect fees and local regulations.

The trick would be to supply supplemental DC solar power in a manner that would not be considered grid-tied. That would eliminate a whole level of installation costs, permitting fees and time consuming approvals. Plus you could run the system at some capacity during a grid outage which could be a lifesaver.

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