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Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

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Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#201

Post by fauigerzigerk »

toast0 wrote: post #178
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the fallback heat issue seems fixable by learning how to operate the equipment properly. That's good to know. Unfortunately, the requirement to keep windows shut and install a ventilation system instead rules out every single place I have ever lived in.

Yeah, if you're accustomed to keeping windows open during the heating season, I think you're going to have a bad time unless you live with a mild climate. Sounds like you're probably on a boiler / radiator system; which probably means you're not in a very mild climate. You could ask an HVAC company what it would take to be on a heat pump with the windows open, but it's probably going to cost a lot of electricity, and…

Understood, thanks!

I'm in London using a gas boiler like almost everybody here. Our windows are always open in the summer and also during much of spring and autumn to keep the mold at bay and the air fresh.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#202

Post by criddell »

tutorialmanager wrote: post #189
criddell wrote: post #146

My HVAC is 14 years old so we’re actually planning on replacing it sometime in the next 24 months. I’ve talked to a couple of HVAC companies already because I want more cooling power. When it’s above 100F (which it is for 3+ months of the year) my current system struggles to hold 80F. If we use the oven on a hot day, we may not get the temperature back down for days. Our winters are relatively mild (we don’t get much…

How about just adding a small minisplit with heat. Warm day = use the minisplit. Hot day = existing central air. Very hot= use them both. If one goes down you still have something while you wait for repair. The mini split could also provide some heating when its mildly cold.

We had a mini split installed into our garage (a Daikin that’s been great). I’m not sure how we would do that for the house. It’s a forced air system with outlets and return air in every room. I’m not sure how feasible it would be to pipe the output from a split system into that ductwork.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#203

Post by aintgonnatakeit »

epanchin wrote: post #145
thehappypm wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint — I have an app for my Mitsubishi heat pump and use it all the time. It’s way more convenient and lets me hyper optimize my house. I actually don’t even use the physical ones at all anymore

Are you tied to the app?

Yes s/he is. Mitsubishi force you to use their Kumo Cloud controls, which are 1) expensive (a few kk) and 2) require cloud. Supposedly Mitsubishi is replacing Kumo with something else, but that just makes the problem worse.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#204

Post by shagie »

thehappypm wrote: post #186
epanchin wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you tied to the app?

No, my phone is wireless

If you lost your phone, would you still be able to manage the heat pump through other interfaces?

If the app wasn't updated for ${latest phone OS}, would you be be unable to upgrade the phone OS?

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#205

Post by cmui »

startupsfail wrote: post #41
dawnerd wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thoughts too. Local heating/cooling should not be tied to the cloud period. If it doesn't use the normal wiring people already have it's a hard pass from me.

Maybe Europe market is ready for this. Considering how unstable the residential electrical and internet grid is in the US (instead of being dug in, into the ground all the cables are hanging between the trees and there are constant failures), relying on that AND on the cloud for an essential service is a no-go.

A common misconception is that you can use your forced air furnace when the power is out - you can't because the blower relies on electricity to move air around. Your point on the cloud service is a good one, which is why cloud services are value-add but unnecessary for core system functionality, ie your system works if there's no internet.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#206

Post by SamBam »

s_tec wrote: post #49
dawnerd wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thoughts too. Local heating/cooling should not be tied to the cloud period. If it doesn't use the normal wiring people already have it's a hard pass from me.

Normal wiring is terrible, though, since it only supports turning the equipment on & off. If you have a variable-speed fan and variable-speed pumps, it would be nice for the thermostat to throttle those based on the load, but it can't. If this company has a solution for variable-speed equipment, the best thing they can do is publish an open standard. Suppose the thermostat talks to the equipment over CAN bus, for ins…

Mitsubishi heat pumps, and most others I assume, have local thermostats that communicate by remote (I assume radio waves), but do not require the cloud. This is a fine solution, as stable as wires but not tied to the cloud.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#207

Post by HPMOR »

Hi Chris, I’m an investor in Carrier Global the largest manufacturer of HVAC equipment. Curious on how you see your product differentiating yourself from their heat pumps, I.e superior specs? Also, I believe Carrier sells residential heat pumps directly to consumers through their service centers and also through large commercial deals, so not sure if your business model is strictly different than theirs.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#208

Post by aintgonnatakeit »

s_tec wrote: post #128
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? There are variable speed furnaces that can be controlled via a normal thermostat and a 4-wire thermostat setup. Like you said, though, there's no open standard so that can be an issue, but it's standard wiring. https://www.pickhvac.com/thermostat/ (halfway down - "Communicating HVAC System") https://www.pickhvac.com/central-air-conditioner/extras/comm... (deeper dive into Communicating vs Non-Commun…

Well, that just makes it worse! OP strongly implies that there is no good variable-speed solution, but if the industry already has an assortment of products, what exactly are they even selling?!

I think you have to go thru a licensed HVAC installer to get an inverter system. These guys are DTC.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#209

Post by simplyaccont »

kayson wrote: post #64

Ducted systems are horribly inefficient. Why heat/cool the entire house if you're only in one room? We paid $11k to have a 4-unit 42kbtu mini-split system installed in our condo. We love it. We turn the two units on in the living areas during the day, and just the two units in the bedroom at night. Each unit comes with its own remote and can be programmed individually. No need for an app-enabled/iot multi-zone thermo…

it's possible to use zone system with ducted hvac. extra layer of fun.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#210

Post by cmui »

masterj wrote: post #168
z3ugma wrote: post #12

Chris, one of my biggest worries is that your startup will get acquired or go out of business and then the firmware will leave me with a $14,000 brick. What if I want to keep using the cloud-based thermostat when your servers get shut off or moved to another system, or if something like Google Nest closing down their API happens after you've exited? This is an expensive system with an expected long life, and I'd want…

The software is certainly a concern, but I would also heavily emphasize the ability to get spare parts and service quickly. If your heat goes out in the middle of winter you don't want to wait weeks for spare parts, or be unable to get them at all if the company goes out of business.

Yes, making spare parts and service work is super important. We'll likely set up regional distribution points for spare parts so anything critical can be easily sent next day.
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