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Europe pushing for lunar time zone

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Re: Europe pushing for lunar time zone

#361

Post by coldpie »

trompetenaccoun wrote: post #336
coldpie wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already have that, it's UTC. And we don't need to learn a whole new system of time measurement to use it.

Currently you have to know all your timezones and do the conversions in your head if you travel a lot for example. Additionally the organizers of many events and conferences, even very international ones, do not use UTC. So no, UTC doesn't solve that problem in practical terms. If the entire world used UTC for their local time, then it would be a similar solution. I personally wouldn't mind that actually. It would ta…

You have to know how the sun behaves at your local position relative to the universal time regardless of whether we call that knowledge "time zones" or something else. It sounds like what you want is for everyone to be more explicit about their time zone: instead of saying "the conference starts at 3 PM" they should say, "the conference starts at 3 PM UTC-6", right? From that you can easily derive that it's 9 PM UTC, and interpret that however you like for your current location.

Re: Europe pushing for lunar time zone

#362

Post by yencabulator »

adastra22 wrote: post #352
yencabulator wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> True, but UTC drift calculations on earth are different from on the moon. Hey reference clock, what time do you see? Oh, it's X? And I'm at Y? Okay, I'll adjust my drift correction factor to Z. They might drift more than good modern-day clocks, and the latency to the reference clock might be higher, but the basic mechanism of correcting for the drift shouldn't be any different. What's the difference between taking…

It's not drift. Time passes more quickly on the moon, to such an extent that there are 56 microseconds more each day on the lunar surface than on Earth. This is a an effect of general relativity. For everyday human-scale stuff, sure this doesn't matter. For precise scientific and industrial use cases, it does.

I repeat myself: What's the difference between taking a good clock to the moon, where it runs 56 microseconds fast each day, versus having a less-tuned oscillator that runs 56 microseconds fast each day?

Re: Europe pushing for lunar time zone

#364

Post by xen2xen1 »

ajuc wrote: post #153
cyberpunk wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer KSR's "time gap". At midnight on mars, everyone just gets a 40 minute period where the clocks don't move.

This breaks all computer games and also internet (I think?).

And might make planes fall from the sky, rather like the problem with the F35 and international date line.

Re: Europe pushing for lunar time zone

#365

Post by cornholio »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #319
cornholio wrote: post #125

I am a proponent of a Martian timekeeping system where each day has 24 hours 39 minutes and 35.244 seconds and all the rest of time units have standard lengths. For example, at midnight your martian clock would show the time as 24:39:35 for a fraction of a second, then wound back to 00:00:00. The calendar then would track the Earth calendar as close as possible, with shortened months to accommodate for the longer day…

Despite this, I'm an advocate for martian self-determination when it comes to deciding their timekeeping system. Earthlings, despite their good intentions, should stay out of the matter categorically.

I agree; but unless we discover some inteligent indigenous species, Martian self determination can happen only if earthlings will go and live on Mars. And for that, they will need clocks, clocks made on Earth by other earthlings.

Re: Europe pushing for lunar time zone

#366

Post by thefifthsetpin »

cornholio wrote: post #350
jefftk wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's not clear why that author decided to talk about Mars. They didn't connect their comment to to the article at all.

Sorry about that, I was just throwing somewhere at the bottom of the comment section an off-topic ideea I've been toying with. Didn't expect it will raise such interest and be voted towards the top.

No need to apologize. We knew what we were doing when upvoting a comment by the great cornholio.

Re: Europe pushing for lunar time zone

#367

Post by cwkoss »

throw0101a wrote: post #359
kelseyfrog wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite this, I'm an advocate for martian self-determination when it comes to deciding their timekeeping system. Earthlings, despite their good intentions, should stay out of the matter categorically.

What about Belters? * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Expanse_(novel_series)

They'd probably keep the time of their primary trade partners. I feel like there is a nautical precedent, but can't remember specifically.

Does everyone on the ISS stick to the same time zone? Or do they tend to sleep with their country of origin?

Re: Europe pushing for lunar time zone

#368

Post by throw0101a »

cwkoss wrote: post #367
throw0101a wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Belters? * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Expanse_(novel_series)

They'd probably keep the time of their primary trade partners. I feel like there is a nautical precedent, but can't remember specifically. Does everyone on the ISS stick to the same time zone? Or do they tend to sleep with their country of origin?

> Does everyone on the ISS stick to the same time zone? Or do they tend to sleep with their country of origin?

UTC for everyone.

Re: Europe pushing for lunar time zone

#369

Post by Kwpolska »

zamnos wrote: post #340
Kwpolska wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that does not scale. Sunrise and sunset are at very similar times in CET countries, meaning they have similar business hours, and I can set up a meeting between Spain, Poland, and the UK (which is on UTC/BST, but that’s close enough) at 11:00 CET and everyone will be fine with it and well awake at that time. If we extended CET around the world, and wanted someone in New York to join our meeting, they would be fur…

[flagged]

Do you have an example that is not from an oppressive regime that does not care about the happiness of its citizens? Do you have an example that does not have an unofficial time zone [0] observed by people in the easternmost part of the country?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_Time

Re: Europe pushing for lunar time zone

#370

Post by cwkoss »

lolinder wrote: post #276

> There are also technical issues to consider. Clocks run faster on the moon than on Earth, gaining about 56 microseconds each day, the space agency said. Further complicating matters, ticking occurs differently on the lunar surface than in lunar orbit. At first this sounded like they were describing a mechanical issue with analog clocks, but they're not: time on the moon actually moves this much faster relative to E…

How significant is the time warp? Ex. how many moon-years are equivalent to 100 earth years?
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